Diki... I asked a question and I do not feel I berate you. I just want to know what you have to do to change sounds,volumne levels, effects , transposition etc,, with your G70.

This is the only thing I want to know...
I have paid no attention to Rikki's comments ...

Well, seeing as Rikki was the one posting with the most experience with editing and style creation on a Ketron, perhaps you might have paid more attention? If you have issues with someone criticizing Ketron's editing capabilities, why not question the person who HAD ONE, rather than one merely repeating the facts? Sorry if I took your response the wrong way, but it seems more a rebuttal that a genuine desire to find out. If you wish to learn more about the Roland's editing, rather than ask me to post about it, why not do what I did for the Audya and SD-1... download the manual, and read it for yourself? To describe in detail what can be done with Roland's editing tools is a very extensive article...

To boil it down to a nutshell (there's mixing metaphors for you!), Roland's style editing and sequence editing is COMPREHENSIVE. Just about anything you could ever want to try, you can do it. In the E50 all the way up to the G70/E80. No external software needed. Only a powerhouse computer sequencer like Cubase offers more editing for a sequence (but none for a style). It has graphical, easy to read displays, makes the most of touch screen technology, and is pretty intuitive, if you have ANY editing experience.

Ketron's, for anything more complex than editing the headers on a track, are a joke, especially at the inflated price point of an Audya. Currently, a non-existent joke. But in the future, with OS3 (maybe) they will in all probability be the same joke that the SD-1 is. And this isn't MY opinion. It is the opinion of anyone that HAS posted here to talk about Ketron's editing capabilities.

Look, if you don't actually NEED any style editing capabilities, have at it. No skin off my nose! But maybe, one day, you might need to move a snare hit or kick pattern to match a song you want to do. Maybe you'd prefer bongos instead of congas on a style. Maybe you'd like to change the pocket of a shaker sound. Maybe you get a translated style that didn't get all the chords right...

Maybe you could let US know exactly what you would need a style editor to do...?

Diki... I demonstrated the SD1 at NAMM shows for 2 1/2 years. I also was an authorized Roland dealer for 3 years. I was selling Roland arranger keyboards in 1996. I was selling Yamaha arrangers in 1988.

I created a video for the X1. So, I know Ketron products and I need no one's opinion.

I asked a simple question. How do you change sounds, volumne levels, effects in real time ?

If you have to put it in a sequencer, than to me, Roland does not have user friendly edit capabilities.

I'm not going to piss any more with you Diki.

The SD1 was not a joke and I find your remark offensive and stuck up.

AJ you and I are friends, so I'm sorry that this thread turned.

This is offically my last post...I've demonstrated Ketron for many years to many, many professionals. Stevie Wonder, Ricky Lawson, Bootsie Collins, Ellis Hall and many others and helped sell Ketron products for dealers all over the country. The product is a Joke,this forum has become a joke.

Dan,

doing ANYTHING on a G-70 is a breeze
you really don't need the manual
you just hit the button "MAKEUP TOOLS" and the rest is self explanatory
you could do all you ask (change sounds,volume levels, effects , transposition etc) and much more
NO NEED for a sequencer, this is all part of makeuptools,
you can make your own styles from midifiles, super easy too

you could even edit every part of any drumkit, you can EQ any part of the Kit, you can apply FX to any part of kit,
so if you want the Kick DRY, you got it, if you want the Snare "wet" you got it", if you need the Kick with more bass you got it,

try all that on a Ketron, add reverb to drum track, and sadly ALL drums have reverb

it is SUPER EASY on the G-70, so easy, a caveman can do it

And so hard on a Ketron, an owner can't imagine for one second anybody else could have it easier...

Dan, I don't care one jot whether you are upset or not. I am merely repeating what others have posted about the bare bones nature of Ketron editing. I don't recall you ever getting so worked up about it at the time, nor refuting their experience.

How long ago were you a Roland dealer...? I missed the whole V/VA series, but I can assure you that NONE of this editing ease was in my G1000. This is all pretty new.

No, you don't have to put it in a sequencer. Header information, and detailed drumkit editing can all be done in realtime. Vol/pan/rvb/chr can all be adjusted from sliders for every single sound in the style (not just the eight Parts, but multiple sounds within a Part), as well as from their own dedicated page where you can also adjust velocity offsets (makes a big difference on those velocity switched sounds), octaves, transposition, Tone used (by a shortcut that gets you directly into the normal Tone selection pages), a button that starts the style wherever that particular sound is first used (in case you are in a Variation that doesn't use it).

And, if THAT is not enough detail, there is a fully featured sequencer where you can correct just ONE note or controller all the way up to doing percentage velocity offsets to just ONE sound in a drumkit only on a certain beat of the bar. But I apologize for calling Ketron's editing a joke. Were I to own one, I wouldn't be thinking it is very funny at all...

Instead of getting pissed of at me, why not take some of the others here with Roland's word? So easy, a caveman could do it. I like that!

And no offense, but if you were a Roland dealer, how come you don't already know this stuff? Don't throw your credentials around if your experience doesn't match it. I took the time to read the SD-1 manual, the Audya Quick Start guide, and read all the posts from those that had relevant experience. And you are pissed at me because you can't be bothered to do the same thing? What am I? Google?

If you don't need or want anyone's opinion (including Ketron's users) that sounds mighty arrogant. Come back and get worked up at me again once you have bothered to discuss the shortcomings in Ketron's editing with those that DO have them. It's not so easy to act so dismissive when you are talking to an owner that has considerable issues, is it?

Hi Diki,
I actually sold my SD1+ last week ( after 3 years or so). Luved the sound, especially the Live Drums, but didn't suit my needs.
I use a lot of "user styles".

I don't think I've ever commented on the sequencer, not a function I use, I only mess around with styles.

Unfortunately I'm not expert enough to record a style in realtime from scratch & not make a mistake.

My styles are put together from, emc conversions, midifiles, mix n matching of style tracks etc etc. Simple stuff that any enthusiest could do. Lack of individual note & controller editing made it unsuitable for my needs.

Another option for user style editing was a PC sequencer, unfortunately the individual style parts had to be played across via a midicable from pc to sd1+.Labourious.

I can only assume Ketron Keyboards are targeted at the professional user ( which I'm not) or at users who are totally content with onboard styles or Ketron commercial styles ( which I'm not).

Too late to add additional editing functions to the sd1 & earlier boards.
To me one simple solution might have been a software editor ie by converting a Ketron style to midifile format. From there the file could be edited in any pc sequencer , saved & converted back to a style.
EMC has an import/export function that saves style as a midifile , only problem is, emc removes tempo changes & sometimes it removes controllers.

For my needs, the best thing that Korg did in it's os2 upgrade was add the ability to export a COMPLETE style as a midifile.
Even though korg's style editing can be done totally onboard, the ability to export the style as one long midifile , with Markers (which denote where style parts start) is brilliant. Makes editing a breeze.

Anyway, I'm now a very content PA800 owner, have been for 18months.

If nothing else, I've learnt, next time to make sure the keyboard I'm buying has the functions to suit my specific needs..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 05-29-2009).]

Thanks, Rikki...

Professional or not, there are few who can record an entire part without making even ONE tiny mistake. And lack of event editing and controller editing makes ANYTHING a PITA. As does having to transfer to a computer (and having to buy a PC if you are a Mac user) to be able to do any detail work.

I've got a bunch of EMC conversions. And let me tell you, from controller issues to wrong chords (sometimes, 7th and 6th play fine, but simple major comes out as minor!), without event editing they are unusable. With event editing, they are often fine.

Treat an arranger as a ROM only preset machine, all is good. But if you like to assemble, create or edit styles, these tools are absolutely indispensable.

So.... any comment from the ex Ketron and Roland dealer?

I'll do you one better.. I recorded this song a few years ago on my uh hm.. my Tyros >> Sorry Yamaha, out with the old in with the new i.e. my brand spanking new Fantom G7 that I purchased about a year ago" What can I say?

Anyway, left hand is Organ, right hand is Elec. Guitar (two parts plus a Mega Distorted at the beginning) and NO mistakes that I can tell. Oh and by the way, it was recorded "real time" in one take, directly into my computer. In fact, that's how I did most of my recordings with my uh hm.. former Tyros i.e. in real time.

Just Passing Through

It was Johann Sebastian Bach who said -
"There's nothing remarkable about it" {referring to playing the Piano/Keyboard}. He goes on to say - "All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." >> Even more true when you play an Arranger with auto-accompaniment on eh? Get it... "Plays itself".. I thought so.

By the way Diki, thanks for the compliment!

All the best,
Mike