From the info I got over the years.., (as I said in a previous post) a very big obsticle for some when recording user styles from scratch is recording the drum parts. This is very difficult for some people. I've talked to several here who have tried to record their own user styles.., yet find they just end up using the preset drum parts already there and replacing everything else. Getting those drum fills down can also be a pain in the ass for some too.

I've always thought (in general) manuals have been pretty decent in the area. They give you the basics.., but creating good stlyles is something you just have to learn hands on and get in a lot of practice time

Strange, but I find the bass and drum parts the easiest when doing a style from scratch, but I play drums and bass so I know what I want.

The chords and phrases require setting note limits, and they have to be played in over one chord, which is unnatural for most of us keyboardists, as we naturally want to do progressions.

Most arranger players are content to learn how to swap parts, or change voices, and effects...that's been my experience, and I've been doing clinics for quite some time.

The next important things users want to know (at least my clients) is how to re-voice and edit and/or transpose a commercial SMF.

Luckily there are forums like PSR Tutorial, and YPKO to help with other aspects of the instrument, but in my experience, my clinics are usually about style and SMF editing and sometimes a bit about making user registrations or adding tunes to the Music Finder.

Ian

Dom ,are you saying that you have had no other reports from any of your customers that the MS has crashed in normal use as an arranger or stand alone keyboard ? Is Dennis just one exception ? If so just send him another keyboard and take the old one back. It cant be worth your time having to continually resolve problems that are associated with just one user.

Or is it more than Dennis that is having problems with the MS ?

And did the guy in this clip just play midi files or MP3's all night ?

'This simple demo also shown that the MS is able to play the all night without crash, it mean stable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-6Mo2Gbk64'

I guess thats one way of using an MS but thats one hell of an expensive MP3 player.....



[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 06-06-2009).]

There hasn't been a SINGLE thread anywhere on SZ that anyone has ever called for Dom to stop developing style editing tools, and concentrate on styles. NOT ONE.

What there HAVE been (I should know, I posted them ) are threads asking for Dom to slow down the OS development, and concentrate on styles. He's been so focused on just basically getting the monster to work, and to add audio loop tools, multiple VSTi addressing form the styles and SMF's, and a plethora of other things, but has spent little time or money (compared to the big 3, at least) on coherent soundset design (which you need for great style creation) and then the styles themselves. OK, maybe this would slow down style editing tools (but I didn't know they were as basic as Dennis points out), but only as a process of slowing EVERYTHING down... to develop great styles.

Most of us use the already existing great styles as jumping off points for our own creation. But when there aren't many great styles to start with, something needs fixing.

But I assure you, wherever you have got the impression that anyone has asked Dom to slow down style editing tools, you are wrong....

I also have a basic difference with you. You make it out like there is NO difference between what you create yourself and what exists in great ROM styles, there's no way to judge, yada yada yada... Sorry to burst your bubble, but where I come from, audiences tend to like that which sounds great, and not like that which sucks... So I prefer styles that don't suck. Sorry. Even if I've created them myself, edited them myself, whatever. If they suck, they suck. It isn't a matter of taste. Unless you can find me an audience that DOES like styles that suck...

I suggest you reread a lot of the post that called for more content on the MS and less style editing. Rather than trying to rewrite history after the fact. I don't know why you now want to change your tone regarding development of the MS.

I am sure users can do a search for topics on the MS and see a constant theme for DOM to stop/slowdown (what ever term you want to use), the technology development on the MS.
But I guess all this discussion comes from members not understanding the concept of the MS.


Because when you do not recognize that “to add audio loop tools, multiple VSTi addressing form the styles and SMF's, and a plethora of other things,” is style editing and creation and not just OS development, and an ecentual selling point of the MS then I could somewhat understand the confusion and contradictions in most members postings hear on Synthzone regarding the MS and Audya.

You see, audio loop integration is and essential part of style editing and creation on the MS. VST integration is an essential part of style editing and creation on the MS.

Its all about understanding the concept.


And, if you think I am making these things up regarding understanding the concept of the MS, observe the following two statements in the same prier post by Diki:

“What there HAVE been (I should know, I posted them ) are threads asking for Dom to slow down the OS development, and concentrate on styles.”

And later down in that same post,

“But I assure you, wherever you have got the impression that anyone has asked Dom to slow down style editing tools, you are wrong....”


I never once said that user styles = suck. So I don’t know where you got that misconception from.

Oh and if you can not see that whether a style is useable for one but not useable for another is subjective, then……

I never compared user styles and factory styles in terms of “good” “better” “best”

So whether a style “suck” (what ever that means) is not the discussion I am having about user edited and created styles. To me, it is getting out of the arranger what works most comfortably for the user so that the user can satisfy their audience with the inclusions of styles.
You see, styles is just one part of the equation. What you do with them on stage is another important factor. What you are suggesting is that most persons on this forum have to have the styles doing every thing for them OOTB. That’s fine. It is just not how I work. To each his/her own.

I like to make it look and sound as if I am controlling the band not the band controlling me.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 06-06-2009).]

I will be short.

First if you want tool like MS you need to understand that :

1 This keyboard is not out of box.

2. Dom is every time developing new things That's good. I know him long time i can say all what he done in past he made good. But each ISO need some time to be tested. And because some users like me want to test them he is giving at web all.
MS first when you buy is working well if you know to use like ordinary keyboard. You can play sounds, VSTs, styles, midi files, mp3 . ... That will somebody admit but on end if you can see first replays from midden you will see that all works. Of course more you investigate on it more you find inside more you want to test. That is trouble of open kbd. You want more and more and more ....

3. When you want to investigate at new ISO you need to know that NEW ISO IS only for advanced users. That same thing says all manufactures. You are responsible for your decision.

4. When you use MS at live gig you need to know how is working. If you will test it before for all use it will not stop or you will not need to restart never. Believe me. I use it at live performances and I never had troubles there and also not at home.


If you understand that than MS will play long long time

I'm not sticking my head in the sand I really know what I said.


And finally my friend DIKI I know what I'm having as you know what your are having with G70. Your instrument is really good in your hand. IF you are so good as I see, than MS in your hands will be fantastic dream keyboard that nobody will not forget ever.

I can only say that I'm satisfied user of MY LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION, if you like that or not.

All what you only dream on other keyboards here is possible. But you must know how to use that for your own good.

ENJOY WHAT EVER YOU PLAY.
Magica ALFA

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 06-06-2009).]

Genesys i am not sure yiou have qouted Diki in the correct context

'And, if you think I am making these things up regarding understanding the concept of the MS, observe the following two statements in the same prier post by Diki:

“What there HAVE been (I should know, I posted them ) are threads asking for Dom to slow down the OS development, and concentrate on styles.”

And later down in that same post,

“But I assure you, wherever you have got the impression that anyone has asked Dom to slow down style editing tools, you are wrong....”

I am sure diki will respond himself but clearly the context that diki and even i have commented about the MS in regards to Doms focus, is on making better styles, styles at least up to the standard of the main manufacturers and to reduce his focus on adding more and more functionalilty in the Operating System. Adding more functions on the MS does not make it have better styles or sound better!! I understand that if you twist Dikis words (your not some kind of Lawyer i hope :-)) and the context that by adding Qranger and the ability to cut and paste audio loops, you are adding functionality to editing styles and that is a further developement of the operating system , BUT that clearly is not within the same context as the first qoute as that was about the OS generally and not specific aspects of its developement.

Clearly (at least to me) you are misqouting diki and its not necessary. I am not defending diki. He is an adult man and can look after himself but all this BS is not necessary at all.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 06-06-2009).]

Spalding I don’t believe I was misquoting Diki out of context. If I am or if he feels that way, let me apologized in advance.

But, I do believe that Diki was making the point that there is a difference between OS enhancements and style creation and editing tools. Remember I was not the one to start making that distinction it was Diki who chose to make that technical distinction.


The point I have been always trying to get across is that with the MS it is not that cut and dry that the lines between a OS enhancement and style editing/creation tools is blurred.


Remember Dom was always making enhancements to the OS/style editing creation tools on the MS. The cry was for Dom to put that on hold and get more content because arranger users are not skilled in using technology on arrangers. That was the general gist of prier post regarding the MS. I don’t think any one can deny that.

The contradiction I was pointing out is that discussions with the Audya saw a change in those person’s positions. They are criticizing Ketron for not having on the Audya more detail and complex style editing/creation tools on the Audya (the same tools they say arranger users are incapable of using).

You are right that styles creating only for MS is good and needed thing.

But I thing here is next step: If i use this style with one VST inside od i use style with other VST inside at same place.

And here need to made some line. I made my styles with my setup of keyboard. Somebody else will not use same setup as I'm doing that. Here is use of keyboard really endless. I understand Diki when he said that keyboard with converted styles is totaly different sounded. You can imagine how is than if I have in one keyboard 20 VSTs or modules. (That means 20 keyboards).

With LIVE STYLER We got good tool for keyboard players that have some emotion to their previous keyboards and that want only to convert style to new keyboard and play with XG or with some other VST or GM GIGA.
I can make my keyboard in really fast way same as other keyboard (from box). But i don't want that - I will not be happy.

Fascinating! The MS is truly a work in progress eh? I wonder if we can get a video of Fran having to reboot his MS several times in a span of a few minutes? It should be a relatively easy task to accomplish I would think. Just turn the Video Cam on and start filming for 5 minutes or so.

Man, oh Man! am I glad I listened to my gut instinct and held off getting the MS! Irish Acts was right too. These things should have been pointed out LOOONNNNNNGGGGGGG ago!

If a keyboard i.e. "ANY KEYBOARD" is not ready to be fully utilized OOTB then that particular keyboard is NOT ready for prime time period! It is BETA and should be viewed as such in my opinion.

Although, I think it is admirable that Domenico i.e. Dom, is venturing out in new ways and avenues to bring us his revolutionary product(s). The only thing that really compares to the MS is OpenLabs with its Neko and/or the ultra expensive and ultra heavy Wersi's. Dom has a vision because he really believes that Arrangers and even Workstations are headed in this direction i.e. for an ALL IN ONE hardware/software solution where the sky is the limit - depending, of course, on how well the software seamlessly integrates with the on-board hardware and also how technically advanced the hardware actually is that the software needs to run on.

I think Workstations and Arrangers are going in that direction eventually too, and Domenico sould be considered a front runner and a visionary for his efforts and insight into the path and ultimate future of keyboards. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done (as evidenced by the MS ) but all revolutionary ideas with their subsequent product(s) will always have a multitude of problems that require solutions to and bugs that need ironing out. That's a given. For an expample, just look at the MS for your proof...

But I commend Dom for his determination and continued hard work on the MS and his other products. His persistence amid all the naysayers and negativity surrounding the MS really speaks volumes of him as a person in general. That is, "when the going gets tough the tough get going". In other words, they work even harder with the eventual prospect and hopeful outcome of accomplishing all their goals - in this case, the epitome of what a top notch and superior Workstation/Arranger could theoretically be - all rolled into one i.e. a VSTi software/hardware Arranger/Workstation solution like no other. Only, "like no other" in a 'good' way right? It takes time... Hopefully the MS will come through in the end. If it does then I will be the first in line giving my support and monetary resources to the cause. As it stands now though I'm not yet fully convinced. As indeed most others on this forum seem to agree also.

All the best,
Mike