Agree. and that is what a good demonstrator would do is show that it is possible.
Dom’s job is to make the possibility as easy as can be.


And lets face it, we have not had any live hardcore arranger player post on this forum who uses the MS.

Whiles it is astonishing that this hasn't happened yet, I think that because of the poor quality official demo's you now have a situation where the level of feedback is almost completely negative and end users don't want to even get involved with uploading examples of their own work.

Then on the other hand there will always be the few who make things worse like Magica Alfa & AFG Music. You can find examples of this on any forum for any product.

James

Dom... you know my email address if your looking for someone

I'm actually serious too. I'm extremely curious as to why the official demo's fail when it shouldn't be possible to make VSTi's sound so bad.

Mapping styles to a VSTi like Bandstand should technically = success. Yet, every demo fails.

James

Sorry, James, but most players don't need to hear something sound amazing to make their Big 3 arrangers sound good... They simply switch them on, select a style, and just PLAY. And it DOES sound good.

All this is demonstrating is that, unless you ARE a professional demonstrator, skilled in all aspects of playing AND voicing a complex arranger, you shouldn't even BOTHER with the MS unless all you want to do is play a few VSTi live.

Dom doesn't need to hire you (or any professional demonstrator) to merely make a 'proof of concept' demo. He needs to hire you (or a whole TEAM of great professionals) to do all the voicing and styling so that you can switch the MS on, and have the same experience that any normal arranger player does with a Big 3 product. If the MS did this, and THEN had all the advantages that it does over a 'closed' arranger, the world would be beating a path to his door.

But he's too cheap, too lazy, too arrogant, too blind to see that, without this, only the most experienced, best programmers in the world are going to be able to make anything sonically better than the dross we have so far heard. And, let's face it, the best, most experienced player/programmers in the world got better things to do than waste their time voicing and styling a product like this, when there are already PLENTY of products out there that sound great without having to waste all that time.

I have said, for the longest time, that unless Dom licenses quality VSTi like Colossus, Bandstand, GPO etc., and then develops styles specifically for them, all you are ever going to get is poor translations played by unbalanced soundsets. Who wants that?

Excuse me? Were you absent during Dennis's (Miden) odyssey through MS-land? Here's one of the MOST hardcore arranger users on our forum, a professional, who found the MS completely unusable as a live arranger...

Sadly, I think that the reason we haven't had any hardcore arrangers post great music on the MS is that hardcore users don't NEED to buy one to prove to themselves that the whole thing is pointless. Me, I can tell from the factory demos that, firstly, the ROM sounds and styles are a joke (and Dennis said this too), and that this thing is NOT set up OS-wise as a serious arranger... No Bass Inversions, for instance! A feature on some of the cheapest arrangers out there, and one essential to performing music well. This thing is a cobbled together mishmash of computer parts and Linux programming by a techno-geek that CAN'T PLAY MUSIC WELL How on earth are you supposed to design an arranger, if you don't even know what arranger players NEED?

And, the FIRST thing we need is for it to work well OOTB. Because the number of people qualified to turn it into something that doesn't sound like the POS we have all heard for the last few years wouldn't be enough to keep Dom in gas money, let alone keep the company afloat. It becomes all too apparent that the only people buying and trying to use an MS are those too unskilled and inexperienced to know how hard this thing is going to be to work. Or those, like Dennis, that continue to listen to the legion of MS fanboys that either CAN'T make good music on it themselves (but continue to support it rather than admit they have been duped), or don't even HAVE one, but continue to argue for it because, IN THEORY, it OUGHT to work well...

How is YOUR MS coming along, to the genesys?

Yep, that's what I thought...

It is WAY past time that the only recommendation and support for the MS should come from owners who can actually DEMONSTRATE that it is all they claim.

How is YOUR MS coming along, Diki?
Yep, that's what I thought...
It is WAY past time that the only naysayers and detractors for the MS should come from owners who can actually DEMONSTRATE that they have the patients and skill it takes to use a board like the MS.

By that I mean if you put a person who is accustom to play a Casio, and put them on a Motif XS they would be lost and may say it is virtually impossible to make music on the XS the way they were accustomed to using a Casio.

Now before you say it, I know the Motif and the Casio are two different beast. But that is exactly the point. The MS and the other TOTL arrangers are different beast.
While the Motif XS is an arranger, it is not your traditional arranger and while you can accomplish the same thing on the XS as you can a Casio, your approach may have to be different.

Same thing with the MS.

Dom has from the very beginning said that this arranger is not a OOTB content arranger. It is for the user to make it their own. The concept is much different from your traditional arranger. Some one who gets the MS is aware that it is a different arranger and not the same concept as a traditional arranger.


And demos? Absolutely, Dom needs to have demos that can wow people. You know the same type of demos that the big 3 have. The ones that no ordinary arranger user can duplicate.


I really did not want to get Dennis's times with the MS involved in this discussion, but lets just say he had different peculiar desires for the MS.

And we have all read reviews of some arrangers where the user absolutely trashed the sounds, styles and OS of one arranger and went to another brand.

In fact I remember one user trashing the G70 and the SD1; could not believe that manufacturers could make such lousy arrangers. That user is now playing a PA 800 and swears it is the best thing since sliced bread.
So a negative review does not say much about the arranger but says more about the user and the user’s needs and priorities.

Sorry, but once again, a pretty poor analogy with the MotifXS, there...

There are PLENTY of user demos that demonstrate how good the XS is. Quite obviously, despite being a fairly complex beast, its' owners somehow manage to tame it (at least, SOME of them). And that, my friend, is the point (which you constantly ignore)... SOME XS users manage to make great music with the XS. But NONE of the MS users so far have managed to achieve this. In fact, you can take just about ANYTHING out there, and find quite excellent user produced music. Nothing, in my experience, has managed to stymie its' users needs as effectively as the MS has (if making good music IS your goal ). It appears quite unique.

Theoretically, you would THINK this 'open' stuff should make BETTER music than its' closed brethren. But, post all you want, talk all you want, argue all you want. You simply CANNOT argue with the utter dearth of user music that succeeds in living up to the 'potential'. They have had FOUR YEARS to achieve this, and, IMO, virtually no-one has succeeded. Everyone is either using these for playing VSTi's live, or they are sitting at home, virtually unused, while their owners go out and gig on more capable, more usable keyboards.

Before you make any more comparisons to other keyboards, go out and listen to the BEST that their users have managed. Then listen to the best that MS users have managed. And ask yourself 'is Dom DELIBERATELY only selling to people incapable of making good music?'

No, I am sorry, my friend. If no-one has got this beast tamed after four years of trying, it is pretty reasonable (more than reasonable, IMO) to say that it CAN'T be tamed. And, if you don't believe this, I suggest you go and BUY ONE, and prove us wrong (or right!) for yourself...

You are probably as tired as I am waiting for someone ELSE to do it...

Except there have been great MS demos posted. I can remember a Merengue style demo. I can also remember a demo where some persons could not have believed that such good sounds were coming from the MS.

And if a lot of the Demos were playing VSTs well, that is the hold point of the MS. Again, the MS does not boast that it has great on board sounds or styles.

And, my analogy was not whether users can make great demos on the XS, but whether a entry level Casio player can make great user demos on the XS.

Link(s) please.

(I'm genuinely interested)

Not sure if this download link is good. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/015348.html

and here is the other one with the wow I can not believe it is the MS. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/018156.html