Well, we haven't had a "war" on the forum for at least 24 hours so I thought I would submit a topic - actually one that could be serious - so here goes.

Considering what is on the market today - what is the "best" arranger (at any price point) which weighs under 30 pounds and is suitable for live gigging? Take into consideration things like overall sound quality, available styles, live on the fly adjustment capability, and build quality.

hammer

Yamaha S900 hands down.

John,
Please tell us why - what are the strengths of your favorite?

Hammer

Hammer, I just feel that the S900 for me gives the best bang for the buck. As close as you can get to a Tyros series unit without all the bells and whistles & higher pricing. It also has many useful features & the SA/Mega voices are outstanding. It's so easy to use, edit, and the support is by far unsurpassed for 3rd party styles, etc. I am not an expert, but as a home user I enjoy playing the S900 very much.

Diki quote: "Well, as I have always said.... I use my arranger in just about every way you CAN use an arranger! I am NOT one of the 'styles only' purists, nor SMF only, etc.. I do about half my show with SMF's, a lot of which are custom. Some are derived from electronic drumming (I have a Hart Dynamics electronic drumkit and hire good drummers to play parts in) and I put the rest of the parts in myself. Some are made from arranger play, recorded on the built in Sequencer in the G70, transfered out to Cubase, and then dealt with linearly (like you, I don't always like the repetitive nature of the basslines, and substitute my own, edit fills so they don't repeat, etc.).
But a fair proportion of my act I simply use the arranger's drums, play LH bass and live keyboard parts (that keeps it challenging!). I'll also play without any backing if it works for the song. I usually play with a guitarist, so that aspect of automatic generation isn't all that important to me (but I'll use what I DO have to play rhythm if he takes a solo).

But primarily, at least this year, I am playing in full bands, and don't need any auto stuff at all (but I DO need a great sounding live keyboard that is quick to make setups and adjust live, while playing)...

So, you can see, flexibility and ease of use are my main criteria.

While there are many advantages to using SMF's (you pointed many of them out), there ARE a few drawbacks. At least with Markers in the SMF, you get a CERTAIN amount of ability to adjust the form on the fly, but nowhere near the ability of the style section. But with the style section, you can utterly deconstruct a song, change it anywhere you want on a night by night basis. You can insert other songs into the middle, medley them, decide that 'tonight, I want a different rhythm for this song', and just be generally freeform. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't, but with an SMF, it tells YOU how you are going to do the song tonight...

As to using 'song styles', I am afraid I'm not a big fan of those. They sound like the record, something I am deliberately (most of the time!) trying NOT to do. If they want the record, play the record! I prefer to acknowledge (and have the audience recognize) that they are NOT listening to a DJ. Putting your own 'spin' on things, playing to your OWN talents and strengths rather than someone else's wakes up your listeners to 'Hello! this isn't the CD! But it IS good...' and get the audience to connect with you.

My arranger and computer system have always been one, as far as I am concerned. With the USB connectivity, it is the matter of a few seconds to blow something across and work with different tools... The G70 allows me, at least, to work on header stuff (including detail drumkit editing) without leaving the arranger. But for more detail sequence work (if it is beyond the very capable built in sequencer) I don't mind the transfer chores. Overall, from what I have seen on other arrangers, I would put the Roland's sequencer, style creator/editor and header editing (Makeup Tools) at BY FAR the best AND easiest to work with. If I HAD to work without a computer, there is little I could not do. Something you can't say for a LOT of arrangers....

My G70 has a harmonizer mode where you actually PLAY the harmony line you want into a sequence track, and it goes there regardless of being parallel or not. Not that I use it, really. I HATE most harmonizers. By the time you get the voice as loud as it SHOULD be, it's artificial nature becomes too apparent, IMO. We have an Orville in the main studio I work, and I don't even like THAT much! And that's a $5500+ harmonizer...

I agree that styles have their weaknesses, but they also have their strengths. As do SMF's, or even live bands! Adjusting to them, using what they do well and avoiding what they don't do well is the secret to making good music.

If you are looking for a keyboard that covers ALL the bases well, including holding up well in a live band situation (something that quite a few arrangers don't have the kind of sound you need, or OS's that don't make that easy) as well as being good at arranger play AND SMF's (Roland's have always had a lock on that one), you could do FAR worse than to take a good look at the G70. Used, very good condition ones can be had for almost half the price of many current arrangers. It's heavy, but that aside, has done me stellar service in OMB, duo, full band and studio.

What it DOESN'T do is audio. If that is essential (or a sampler), you might need to look at Korg.

Hope this helps."


Confirmation that the G70 Rules.....

AMEN!!!!!!..

Hammer quote "Considering what is on the market today - what is the "best" arranger (at any price point) which weighs under 30 pounds"

I had to bump the weight a bit..I mean really...how can you want the "best all around" and not weigh over 30 pounds...

Hammer - as you may well know, I have a G70 and think it is an awesome arranger and keyboard. But to answer your question I would have to say that the S900 looks to be the best bang for the buck. Yes, the Tyros 2 is around 30 lbs and does a lot more than the S900, but I feel my money would be better spent on the S900.

Now, I have played neither, but owned a 2k and 3k. Knowing the OS and the added features on the S900 and Tyros 2, I might spring for a S900 before a Tyros.

Fran,
Keeping the weight limit in mind - what are your other choices?

Hammer