Well, given that Yamaha's new S70SX is 44 lbs., at least there are CERTAIN Yamaha divisions that consider this weight still 'portable' (it's a 'stage' piano). I don't see why Roland have to change. The G-series has ALWAYS been aimed squarely at the gigging pro (same guy who'd buy an S70SX) rather than the 'home' player, despite their abysmal marketing lately.

The G1000, at 40+ lbs. used to rule the roost back in it's heyday. What happened? Did we all suddenly get myasthenia gravis?

What you SHOULD be asking is, if Yamaha can make a P85 at 25 lbs., why is the S70SX over 44 lbs.? Fix your own house first, Ian..

Diki,

It's a pity Roland was unable to make the G70 around the same weight as the 29 lb E-60, especially since the former doesn't have speakers, and, being the more "pro" of the two, would more likely need to be transported...of course, the G70 was made before the E-60, wasn't it?

The new 44 lb Yamaha S70X weighs less than the G70, yet the former has the same number of keys, and sports a weighted, balanced hammer action keybed.

Now, if they put the 25 lb P-85's action in the next Tyros, and reduced it to 76 keys, we could have a 76 note, graded and weighted hammer action Tyros Pro that, quite likely, could easily be around 30-35 lbs.

That would be manageable.

I'm pretty sure that idea has made the rounds of Yamaha's board room once or hundred times...but, will they make such a wonderful instrument?

Your guess is as good as mine...probably as likely as Roland making a 76 note "pro" G-series arranger as light as the E-60.

Let's hope we see both products in the near future...there's no need of us wrecking our backs at this point in our lives.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-12-2009).]

While we are slightly off topic...

The single most critical factor for a keyboard to me is the key feel..

A board can be the best sound on the market..if it has poor keys, and yes I am referring to PSR type keys, even the slightly better E-50 keys...the sounds do not get the delivery that a great key-bed can give....

A great key-bed will even make less stellar sounds more playable and enjoyable..This is not folklore...It has been a proven fact by most musicians I have know for more than 25 years...

Weight to me, means more durable and better quality...You guys can spin all the nonsense you want about lighter constructed instruments are just as durable..they are not..

If Roland decided to make the top of the line keyboard without the current key-bed, and made the case of plastic, to make a board lighter to please "home players", I will stock up with a back up G70, and pass on the "new" Roland...

As solid as the E-60 was, it still was not in the same construction class as it's big brother, let alone features..If Roland decided to use the E-60 case and key-bed, added the "other" features that are offered on the G70, it would definitely be at the top of users "want" list, It would top out over the PA800, 76 keys being one edge...but if they made the updated G70 future model with same case and keys...that would be where I spend my dollars..


As I mentioned ..to me there is no other better overall arranger....

I have been hauling around the Roland over 40 pound arrangers since day one of the G800 days, followed by the G1000, and now the G70...I was over 50 when I used the G800 (new), and have owned the steel cased, super keybed boards since then...

Maybe I am in better condition than most guys here over 50...for sure I am in better condition than the guys over 65...

66 is right around the corner..

I think I will haul the MediaStation and the G70 to my gigs... ..Why?
Because I can..

Yep, "haul" is a fitting word for sure.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-12-2009).]

Firstly, only a one pound difference. What type of case you put it in will make more difference than that. Secondly, if Roland DID put out a G70 at the same weight as the E60, there would be a riot from all the G-series users about what a cheap and shoddy instrument it was. We LIKE it the way it is... And, I repeat, VERY few dropped the G70 JUST because of the weight. I've already pointed out that JUST adding the G70's action probably ups the weight six or seven pounds over a PSR action (only 61 notes) and increases the case size and need for stiffness (weight needs support). Plus, essentially, the E60 WAS an under 30 lbs. G70! Much of what was good about the G70 was rolled into the E60. And even THAT didn't sell well (more due to Roland's inept marketing than anything else, mind you... no-one could even FIND them). If the E60 wasn't a hit, a 30 lbs. G70 won't be either! 40 lbs. is about as low as this is ever likely to get. The G1000 was stripped down, smaller case, plastic, same action as G70, elegant and as small as it could be made. And IT came in at 40 lbs.

I'm sorry, but a 35 lbs. 76 T3 is only two pounds heavier than it's actual weight at a plastic 61 Unless Yamaha have helium filled, carbon fiber molded cases in the wings, let's get REAL... Put the 25 lbs. P85 action in a T3, it will add probably close to 15 lbs. to the current weight. Remember, it's not JUST the action you are adding. It is the increase in case size to accommodate it (a VERY deep case unlike the slimline P85).

You know, being a Yamaha salesman, and all that, I bet you could look up the shipping weight of replacement actions for the T3 and P85...

But it appears that even 35 lbs. is NOT considered 'manageable' by many here... let alone the 40-45 lbs. it is more likely to come in at!

Personally, I think Roland are no more likely to alienate their existing customer base (that LOVE the G70 enough to forgive it's weight) by bringing out a flyweight 76 TOTL arranger than Yamaha are by bringing out a portly 76.

They already tried it in the E60 and it was found wanting. Yamaha tried the 76 in the 9000pro and it was found wanting. Maybe both these Japanese companies need a little Western 'stick-to-it-ness'

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

I think it is very possible; seeing it to fruition, is another thing.

Casio and Yamaha have weighted action 88 note pianos with speakers that weigh 25 lbs...Casio's even has accompaniments.

So if an 88 weighted hammer can weigh that much, or, more accurately, that little, it is possible to make a 76 note arranger with hammer action, without speakers, that would be around 30 lbs.

Several years ago no one ever thought we'd see weighted hammer keyboards under 30 lbs...let alone 25 lbs.

I think Yamaha would go for the weighted 76, not semi-weighted like the 9000 Pro...but, of course, I'm only guessing.

Most of all, it will depend on the demand and if the 76'ers from the other manufacturers are selling well...I'm told they aren't right now, and my source is pretty reliable. Of course, that can all change...markets are never static for too long.

Ask any G70 owner what they dislike about their instrument, and 9 times out of 10, it is the weight...that's what the salespeople tell me when the have someone shopping for an OMB instrument...some don't mind, but I'm sure there are plenty who do, and move to something lighter like a PSR or Tyros.

One person is not going to lug around a 60 lb (in the case) keyboard very willingly, except for hard core guys like you and Fran. Let's face it, the lighter stuff sounds just as good, and in some cases, better.

I'd happily stay with the S900 if suddenly arrangers were not being made anymore, but they will be, and I like playing with new stuff...I think a lot of people feel that way.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-12-2009).]

If the lighter stuff sounded better, Ian, I'd already be using it! If by 'hardcore' you mean me and Fran aren't willing to accept ANY compromise in the sound no matter how heavy the arranger, well, guilty as charged.

Our choices are pretty slim, anyway, if you accept that it our right to NEED a 76 for the way we play... E60, PA2Xpro, SD-1, Audya, Wersi. That's about it, isn't it? Maybe sales are low on 76's because they don't make many?

I have to rule out Ketron... too barebones editing, and nothing other than those half assed guitars any better than what I have.

I still have issues with Korg's measly two fills and a break/fill on a four variation arranger, and once again, sound-wise, I am still unconvinced there's any improvement in my G70's basic sound. DNC looks promising, but they don't have the sounds for it as refined as Yamaha's SA, yet.

Wersi... Haven't heard much in the way of styles I like, haven't heard anything other than some top VSTi's that blows the G70 away, and I haven't won the lottery!

Basically, I'm STUCK with the G70..! And still loving it! I just hope, when my back gives out finally, I am working with a good strong guitarist! Because you will NOT want to be around me if I have to use some POS lightweight just so I can lift it

That's good, my friend...it's nice to see someone content with their gear...at least till something truly better comes along.

Only improvements I work on now, besides my playing, is style editing.

The beauty of spending a lot of time with one type of arranger, is that you think you know it inside out, and then, you find a new twist on something. I just learned a little trick with the groove function in style creator that lets me use a lot more style parts as donors...I've been busy with that these past few weeks, in between clinics, of course...I'm refreshing most of my styles, and that is sometimes just as good as a new keyboard.

I'm still blown away by the two Bose L1's...never thought I'd have a system that cost so much, but it does what no other PA will do, and if that's the price of admission, so be it...I guess I'm "hard core" too.

Ian

. .. ... here we go again, that word "BEST" does it every time.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-12-2009).]

The new Yamaha S950...Hands down...
(or a S900 until you can get one)
Lee S.