Selling two keyboards and putting my keyboard amp up for sale has given me the opportunity to buy a Compact. With luck it will be here by the weekend for my three jobs. I'm very excited, as I heard them live and was very impressed.

Cass, Welcome to the club and as Gary Diamond says " You're gonna love what you hear!!"

Cass enjoy I love mine!

Donny, can you give us an honest assessment of your Compact - warts an' all? What sort of power does it really have, say in a room of 200 compared to a conventional PA system? Will it handle keyboard and two vocalists at the same time without flinching? I'm seriously looking at the Bose. Thanks.

124...
I have never tried it as you describe so I couldn't give you an honest answer on that ....but I have used it in many gig situations and it has peformed admirably...it has it's limitations of course & when I need more I add some power 15's to the compact with no problems to cover the crowds..I think its 150-200 watts.

Here are some great Bose Compact demos you might enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-zHx3KfX3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pEk1msUvC0&feature=related
http://products.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_l1_compact.pdf

The Bose compact is 110 watts RMS. But that's Bose RMS which are really conservative figures.

So in the real world that's probably more like 125.

Dennis

I heard two outside with added SRM-350's and you could hear clearly but not overly loud thru the entire block.

QUESTION - EQ settings are basic, but what do you find works for you? I'm just going to use an SM58 plugged into my G70 and then into channel 2 with no ToneMatch - is that right?

A lot is going to depend on what Mastering settings you use on the G70, cassp...

Me, I'd set it up at home (isn't the whole POINT of the Bose, that you get the same sound regardless of the room it is in?) and play a sequence through it, stand back at about the audience distance, and adjust it from there...

Cassp,

Regardless of which sound system you use, every venue has it's own acoustics to contend with. Everyone will hear the same volume, but the acoustics of the room, obviously, will vary depending upon a number of factors including floor composition, ceiling height and composition, wall composition, number of people in the audience, etc.. There is no, single EQ setting that will work in all venues. Sometimes the basic smile pattern works just fine, while there are times when you may have to lower the bass because it's overwhelming. When I first began using my L1 Compact I created a midi file on the keyboard, turned on the midi, and walked throughout the venue while it played. Then I would go back to the keyboard, make a few EQ changes and walk the venue again. When it sounded good, I saved the information in the keyboard's user area so it could be recalled the next time I performed at that location. This will take a bit of experimenting, but the little bit of time it takes is well worth it.

Good Luck,

Gary

I was considering checking into these, but one of my JBL Eon 10G's alone is 175 watts RMS.

Now I'm thinking what would be the benefit in spending $1000 for that scenario?

Scott, that's the thing with Bose, even though on paper the rms figure is below the Eon, you get far better spread of sound. Not to mention quality.

The Eon NEEDS that much power just to get sound across the room. I have used Eons myself in the past.

Bose make very efficient drivers that need far less energy for a similar result.

Dennis

Scott - what decided it for me was the clarity of sound. I think if you start putting the Compact against bigger wattage systems you will eventually find that you can get a lot more for your buck, but as far as sound clarity is concerned, I haven't heard anything as impressive yet. I've used a few good systems in my time and each has had its qualities, but for a 30 lb amp to deliver what the Compact does is amazing. Hopefully, mine will arrive tomorrow and I can give a personal review based upon my own playing style and experience.

And to add... I've come to the realization that the Compact is just what it says it is - compact. I don't think I or anyone should expect this little guy to be the be-all end-all PA system for everyone. The mixer is somewhat limited and maybe even begs for some improvements, but we'll see...

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 08-20-2009).]

Donny, thanks for your input and the links. I'm liking what I'm hearing so far from everyone.

Cass: Looking forward to your review and hoping you can provide further insight into my original questions to Donny. Especially about how the bottom end sounds when playing modern dance styles.

124.....modern dance styles require a deep bottom end. The compact wouldn't be your choice if that's the case.....it wasn't meant for that alone and going outside its limitations would be detremental to suceess. I would definitly consider using a seperate powered SUB....or advance to the Bose L1 model using two subs....

Ditto.

I've been to see SZ member Mikey Maestro's show this past summer. He's playing high energy music at an outdoor beach type resort on Cape Cod. He's using the L1 with two subs, his music sounds great. A single compact just wouldn't do it at that location.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 08-20-2009).]

Implications of log10 and what that means be damned, eh?

Look, there is so little dB difference between those two cited power levels as to be functionally nonexistent.

But back on topic, Loudness is not Volume is not Amplitude and the use of wattage figures as applies to the psychoacoustics of Bose designs is not likely to work when comparing to the conventional PA system.


--Mac

I've been using the comapact with a Mackie 402 mixer for a while with pretty good success.
Ciao,
Jerry

Power in RMS means little, other than the obvious difference between 750W and 125W...

The only significant stat is SPL at a specific THD. In other words, how LOUD is it, before distortion gets up to an audible point?

And this is the ONE stat, in a sea of meaningless specs, that you will rarely EVER see anyone publishing. But they will print page after page of other bullsh*t for you to argue over endlessly. Anything other than the ONE stat that would put the questions to rest...

One thing I haven't noticed on my friend's L1 system is any kind of clipping or limiter engagement light. Me, I kind of like to keep these things from flashing, but if a system doesn't have one, it's tough to tell when you are bumping into the system ceiling unless you grossly exceed it. They certainly help in making a store comparison. What clips first, at what volume, and how well does it deal with it? That's a real world necessity, IMO...

One thing I like to take to stores when checking a PA is a board tape (or, rather, CD). In other words, record your act exactly as it is going to hit the speakers. If you listen to a commercial CD, they have been compressed and limited VERY professionally, and modern CD's have very little dynamic range, so a PA can sound quite good even at pretty high SPL's. But a board tape has none of that dynamic range reduction... If it is a live band, the drum transients are still there, the peaks and jumps in your own playing and singing are still there, you will hear what the audience hears through that PA as if you were playing.

You may find it to be a LOT lower in volume when you start to hear a bit of distortion creep in.

BTW, if you find yourself in this kind of position, I cannot recommend too highly a little inexpensive compressor by FMR Audio, the RNC1173. It is specifically designed as a stereo only, three stage mix compressor (in other words, rather than the mix being compressed once to get the level reduction you need, it uses three stages to reduce it, each being gentler and more transparent that the one needed to get the same gain reduction). Under $200 last time I checked, and capable of making a band sound EXACTLY the same, out front (you don't WANT to squash your sound if it is a good one!), but magically take a considerable 6-10db or more off of the peaks, and let your PA run without clipping.

It is a magic box...

Thanks again, Donny and Stephenm152. That's what I wanted to know about how much thump there is low down. I guess I was being overly optimistic about the basic unit's woofer having enough in that department. Cheers.

I didn't see them on his L1... was that something they added on the L1mkII or am I just missing it? He doesn't have ToneMatch, just the little remote.

Diki,

The lights on the L1 are on inputs 1 and 2. The system will not clip when properly gain staged, even at higher volumes. This is because the input device volume and channel volumes remain constant. Only the master volume is used after the gain staging is set.

Cheers,

Gary

Any system will clip if asked to go louder than it can... Basically, you gain stage ANY PA so that at your loudest it won't clip. But the SPL at that point varies greatly from system to system. That's what I was trying to say. How loud does any system go BEFORE it clips out the power amps (not the input channel)...?

Either that or limiters engage, effectively destroying your dynamics. Mind you, that's pretty loud on an L1 system

Those clip lights on the input channels are just that, aren't they? Simply input CHANNEL clip lights... I was talking about the power amp clip lights.

There are no output clip lights on the L1--just input. I've never cranked mine past the 11 O'Clock position, and that was for a huge outdoor job. I guess you could get the system to distort, but I've never had to play ear-bleed volume levels since purchasing the system, so I don't have any first hand knowledge on what level you need to attain to cause it. Nigel's a rocker--maybe he can shed some light on the subject.

Cheers,

Gary

I can imagine that the L1 goes loud enough to handle most things, but I was particularly interested in hearing about the Compact. With as little power as this thing sports, I can imagine that it is a LOT easier to push it into overdrive.

I really do feel that power amp clip lights (or limiter engage lights) are a must, especially on small systems, just to let you know when you are starting to bump the headroom of the system...

The unit arrived this morning and the first thing I did was load it into the van for today's jog. Mistake #1 - I had my CM-30's with me too, but left them in the van. I set the Compact up and started to play - yuk! Very muddy, boomy sound; OK Cass, lean over and adjust the treble and bass - oops! There are no treble or bass controls. Now what do I do? Well, I finished the first song and readjusted the keyboard and channel levels on the Compact. the sound improved somewhat, but definitely not as good as I expected or wanted.

I made it thru the set with few problems and in some places it actually sounded pretty good. The projection was excellent and I only had it turned up to 10 o'clock. I missed the high-low dynamics of the CM-30's, but I heard a couple people in the audience comment to each other on how clear everything sounded. They were very pleased with my performance and promised to hire me again.

So, I guess my first experience with the Compact was a mixed bag, and probably more my fault for poor sound than the unit itself. I'm now reading the G70 manual to try to understand how to change the EQ from the board. That, I'm sure, is going to be the determining factor. I have two more jobs this weekend and hopefully each will see an improvement in my setup.

Sorry to disappoint you (and myself) but this is my true experience. Maybe some of you can help me fine tune my setup to get it to its optimal performing range. It's certainly not a plug and play unit, as it looks. A lot depends on the input signal - something I've never worried about before.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 08-21-2009).]

read above

Did you used to use any channel EQ on the CM's?

That might be coloring what you are hearing out of the G70's outputs. You were probably boosting the lows massively to compensate for the lack on the CM's, and probably doing it with the G70's EQ too, weren't you?

I would switch off ALL the EQ in the G70, and just see what the Compact sounds like OOTB. No point doing anything until you HAVE to

Every time I play through my friends L1 system, I have to LOWER the bass EQ on my G70! Those subs always seem a bit hyped in the 200Hz range and downwards. To be honest, after setting my G70's EQ so that it sounds good through a decent pair of nearfields (Mackie HR824), I always feel that the Bose's sound like someone engaged a massive 'smile' EQ, basses get pushed forward, the sound gets brittle, and much of the midrange 'warmth' disappears. It always strikes me as redundant that you have to apply quite a bit of EQ to simply negate the natural EQ of the system and get back to 'flat'...

I hope that it works out for you... the form factor looks amazing. Look forward to your next report.

Thanks for that, cass. First time out with any gear is more likely to be a bit iffy, prep as ye may. Looking forward to another review down the road once you have things sorted on the Bose.

"Sorry to disappoint you (and myself) but this is my true experience. Maybe some of you can help me fine tune my setup to get it to its optimal performing range. It's certainly not a plug and play unit, as it looks. A lot depends on the input signal - something I've never worried about before."

Cass,

You didn't disappoint anyone, and I hope I can get you headed in the right direction.

A lot does depend upon the input signal, and it must be set properly to obtain the best results. While I do not possess a G-70, I believe some of the constraints are the same with all keyboards.

Set the G-70 master volume to the 1:00 O'Clock position. This should remain constant at all times. If you find there is a need to raise or lower the volume, use the L1 Compact's Master Volume--not the keyboard's master volume. If you raised the keyboard's volume after setting everything up this would tend to overdrive the L1, which could cause distortion.

Set the G-70s global EQs in the traditional smile configuration, taking care not to go below the flat line with the mid-range EQs. In my case, my keyboard has a 5-band EQ system, which has an individual channel range of =/- 10 db, plus frequency adjustments for each channel. If the G-70 has something similar, try setting them at 5,4,3,4,8, which for me was a good starting point. Naturally, these settings will vary with individual venues.

Next, set up the L1 compact, making sure that you are in a relatively large room and both extensions are in place.

I'm not familiar with the G-70 audio output, but I assume it has both mono and stereo outs. Most users have found that the best sound quality is achieved by using a 1/4-inch adapter plug that combines both the left and right channels, which can be purchased at Radio Shack.

If you are not using a Tonematch Mixer, be sure to set the input switch to the Line position. It makes a huge difference.

The L1s master volume should be set at approximately the 10 to 11 O'Clock position. If you see any indication of clipping, red or yellow signal, the input volume is probably too high and should be reduced.

In my case, I position the L1 compact a couple feet to the right of my sitting position, and approximately a foot behind me. This allows me to hear exactly the same volume the audience is hearing. Keep in mind that this is not a conventional sound system--if it sounds loud to you, it sounds loud to them.

I created a couple midi files on my PSR-3000 using onboard styles. These are used to determine which set of EQs I use on the keyboard for that particular venue. The Yamaha allows me to save as many EQ configurations as I want in individual files, and I can only assume the G-70 would allow you to do the same. I labeled the EQ files with the names of the venues, just to make things easier.

If you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to help in any way I can, including over the telephone, which is sometimes the easiest way.

One last thing. If for any reason you cannot get the sound out of the L1 Compact that you like, keep in mind that you can return it to the dealer within 45 days and get a full refund. I only know two people that actually did this, but both said there was no problem with the returns.

Keep us posted,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 08-22-2009).]

Thanks Gary. That's some useful info.
I'm using the little Mackie 402-VLZ3 mixer. Someone here suggested it, and I would be interested in learning what settings anyone else who is using the Mackie 402, Bose Compact combination, uses. The 402 only has a 2 band EQ 80Hz to 12kHz - Hi EQ (-15 to +15) and Low EQ (-15 to +15). I wonder what the equivalent settings are to achieve "the smile"?
Ciao,
Jerry

[This message has been edited by Jerry T (edited 08-22-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Jerry T (edited 08-22-2009).]

From my testing with the G70, personally, I hear no difference between using the mono out on the G70, and summing to mono externally. IMO, there's no need for additional gear (a mixer or Y-cord) when faced with a mono input.

And, to be honest, I am STILL waiting for anyone to show this on Yamaha's in any empirical sense. You have to be VERY careful that summing doesn't alter the volume, or tone differences WILL be heard... even though they aren't really there. The ear is VERY sensitive to changes in volume, but tends to percieve them as changes in EQ...

I have to admit, I'm also not a fan of big 'smile' EQ's. Studios spend a fortune mixing and mastering on speakers that are as flat as is humanly possible. Then we go any f*ck it up with a big smile, and then wonder why the vocals get lost, or the sound is brittle, or the bass is spongy... Me, I'd START with everything flat, and only adjust if you HAVE to. Bose's are pretty 'smiley' already, IMO...

What a difference a day makes, 24 little hours... Today's experience with the Compact was a 180* compared to yesterday. What was different? A lot!

First I spent some time with the unit this morning and played my SMFs, styles and sounds thru it over and over. I played with the G70 EQ and decided that the Standard and Flat settings are best. But the biggest change from yesterday were the volume controls. Yesterday the g70 was up all the way while the Compact volume was at 10 o'clock. Today I set the G70 at 11 or 12 o'clock as needed and set and forgot the Compact at 12 straight up. What a difference that made all by itself. The sounds were clear and vocals came thru without a hitch. It didn't hurt that today I had a larger room and I placed the PAS further away from me - I'm convinced I was too close yesterday to really appreciate the sound. I also feel that the lower volume of the Compact did no justice to the keyboard dynamics.

An observation - the lower volumes are very smooth, say up to about 10 o'clock and the higher volumes, above one o'clock really kick. If you can use the amp at 1 or 2 with your equipment I think you'll get optimum sound.

And an aside to Bill Corfield - yeah, Bill today's sound test went much better and I was more impressed with the kick. I think you could make the Compact sing, if that's what you choose to do.

One more job on Monday, this one is probably outside, so I'd like to hear how that works out. I did my fine tuning out on the patio this morning and the neighbor came over and said DON'T STOP when I quit. He said the sound was amazing and was surprised it came from only the Compact.

Day 2 Compact score B+. Today it sounded better than my CM-30's and almost as good as my Mackie setup.

...and to reply to Diki's comment - I used both the single cable and later a double cable and found no audible difference for me. I'll probably start using the single cable and start clearing some of hte stuff I carried around for the CM-30's. May bag will be a little lighter now.

Lastly, a big thanks to Gary for all your great suggestions. It's those simple things that make the difference.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 08-22-2009).]

Glad I could be of assistance.

Your audiences are gonna' love ya!

Cheers,

Gary

I'd still keep that second cable with you, cassp... You never know when one will go bad on you.

I agree--you gotta' carry spares, especially cables.

Good Luck,

Gary

I always carry spares of everything electrical(except that damn G70). I've been there and tried to solder a connection in the dark with a match too. I've got extra cables, but now the double one can be the spare - it's really two spares, right?

I did an outdoor gig yesterday with the Bose compact. I must say, I was hesitant to use it in the street. I set the volume as per Gary’s suggestion and the EQ flat as per Diki. I tweaked everything just a tad and I was surprised as to the response, especially the projection which pretty much exceeded my expectations. Folks a block away heard and responded to the music. I only used the midi accordion, Midjay Plus with vocals. I originally purchased the compact to use only for small venues, but now I think I can expand and use it for some bigger settings, even some outdoor gigs. The other thing – it was hot yesterday. I’m sure I lost a couple of pounds perspiring, but not due to carrying and setting up equipment.
Ciao,
Jerry

Jerry,

Until my recent health problem I considered keeping my standard L1 system. However, since then I decided to sell it and purchase a second L1 compact, primarily for a backup system. And, if the need ever arises, I'll have a pair for playing park concerts that have audiences of 800 to 1,000 in attendance. I have only performed a half-dozen jobs of that size during the past decade, but they were lots of fun, particularly when the young people began dancing with the older crowd. The compact L1 continually amazes me.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary,
You really got me thinking ... Last weekend I had one of those nightmare gigs with the L1, B1. I was told that the gig was to be in the "Grand Ballroom", so I only carried the big Bose system. As it turned out, the ballroom wasn't so "Grand" and only seated about 150. The acoustics were such that I could not reduce the volume enough - complaints all night. When I lowered the volume, the sound quality was correspondingly bad (kinda reminded me of the Bose 802's, they were great if you pushed them, but not so good at low volumes). I didn't get the usual '...sounded great ...' and it has bothered me all week. That's why I was so interested in hearing how the compact performed in larger venues. I do several outdoor Italian festivals a year and the L1 with the B1 works great for those venues. But, if as you say, 2 compacts could be chained, ... hmmm ...
Ciao,
Jerry

Jerry-

I use the L1 for all size rooms I play at for everything from smallish nursing homes to grand ballrooms like I just did this past Saturday evening. I've never had any trouble finding a happy volume for everyone.

Tell us more about the room you were, ok?

One challenge for me is when they force me to cramp into a space, and I don't have enough room behind the L1 for it to breath, the bass response on many of the Yammy styles in my T2 becomes huge. Usually I can set the sub in such a way that it works out fine though...

Cheers-

------------------
Bill in Dayton

Now you guys are talking about something i can associate with. That first job with the Compact was definitely of poor quality because I compromised the volumes, and I mentioned that. TODAY, I played outside under a huge gazebo, maybe 40x40 with an uncovered patio area twice that and grass covering twice that or more. I could be heard all over the outside area very clearly. Most of the people sat inside the gazebo and i had the volume up to 12 o'clock; it was strong and clear and not one person complained or covered an ear or anything. I would say the Compact can handle 150 people easily.

As for chaining two Compacts together, they're not designed for that at all. you would probably need a small stereo mixer to route the signals properly - maybe a splitter might work, I don't know. If you're running a mic thru your keyboard and cabling the keyboard in stereo you could run R/L to the respective Compacts.

DAY 4 with the Bose - Today we played outside and the Compact really shined. I turned the volume up one more notch and the system really responded with more clarity and presence. I must say I'm getting to like this Compact way more than I expected. It is now almost the lightest part of my setup; I hate to put it away for the next few days until the next job. I love hearing myself thru it. Today it was much better than the CM-30's have ever been. I give today an A- only because late in the set I got a slight feedback hum - I guess I need to increase the angle and separation of my mic and Compact a little more. Other than that, things went perfectly and the people were enthusiastically pleased. Several people came up and complimented me on the sound and selections. I am looking forward to playing that assisted living residence again and again.

Not to hyjack your post but I am also a "New" Bose Compact owner. I have "Two". I use a PA2x and I am extemely pleased with my decision.
casp I believe you can Daisy chain them. The output jack on the back can go into the input of another, I believe that's in the manual. I use them in stereo directly from the PA2x outputs. Set the master volumes to 12 o'clock and control the overall volume from the PA2x ... works great, don't need a mixer.

JC - you are right. You can daisy chain by using the line out, but that doesn't give you stereo. You are simply feeding your mono signal to another Compact (or other source).

Two Compacts would really be attractive for larger venues. I'm thinkig of liquidating all my other equipment, but I do not forsee me playing large venues in the near future. But a second Compact is attractive, if only because of its weight to performance ratio. I'm pleasantly and totally surprised just how powerful and useful this amp is. It has exceeded my expectations in less than a week.

I was lucky to find mine on eBay for only $800. It is brand new and only two months old. I bought it from a young man needing to meet school expenses. So, for that price I feel I got a super bargain. I'm gonna keep my eyes open for a similar ToneMatch mixer deal.

Until yesterday I would have said that your plan is a daydream, but the value of a second Compact is definitely something to consider. I have no need for a second one myself, but two Compacts could definitely fill some large spaces with no problems. These little buggers are amazing. I've heard the L1 B1 setup and know what it is capable of, but this little brother is no imposter. It can handle most of what an L1 system can very easily. Unless you are consistently playing for over 100-150 people, a Compact should handle your needs, and two could handle the larger venues.

So much is said about the cost. Yes, the Compact is probably more expensive than most small PA systems, but their performance is remarkable and the light weight is so much appreciated.

Cass, great deal on the compact and that's good news you're happy with it your setup.

JC congratulations on the 2 compacts, great combo you've got there.

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 08-25-2009).]

I just got done playing the scariest set in many moons. I got to the venue a 1/2 hr. early, as usual. I got everything set up and even had time to tweak the Compact and the G70. The clock hit 2:30 and I started by playing Satin Doll using my medium swing style. As I approached the end of the song I pushed my SMF list button and - lo and behold there were no SMFs. I left the memory card on the computer desk; I had edited some titles and now forgot it at home. Luckily, I keep a spare, BUT it too was at home today. The following 55 minutes were a learning opportunity, as they say. I played my way thru many songs I don't normally play and also played a few with styles I've never used; wow, was that interesting. I dug in deep and forced myself to adjust tempos on the fly (I hate tap tempo). My usual stellar job on Before You Accuse Me was an exercise in slow, medium and fast blues - each verse a little faster than the previous...

All I can say is, the G70 and the Compact sounded great and I guess I did a pretty good job too because the crowd gave me a standing ovation - actually, they were standing as we all sung God Bless America. But the did like the program very much and the AD was very enthusiastic about saying she would look for some more date for this year and secure some dates with me for next.

So my scary set turned into a fulfilling one. When you screw up, keep going and you will work your way out of a jam.

Cass,

I encountered a similar situation a couple years ago when the midi connection between my PSR-3000 and laptop failed to connect. At first I thought it was just a cable and pulled my spare out as a replacement. It too didn't connect. I performed the 2-hour job working strictly from onboard and third-party styles, didn't take a break during the entire time, and dead time between songs was, as always, less than 2 seconds. The audience loved the performance, booked me for the rest of the year, and booked all of the following year.

In my case, the keyboard's tiny midi PC board had a hairline crack that my local repair guy fixed while I waited. The board has performed flawlessly ever since.

Obviously, you delivered what DNJ frequently referred to as "the goods." Glad the L1 Compact is working out for you.

Cheers,

Gary

The real value is that you know you can work your way through most anything.



------------------
Bill in Dayton