By now everyone must have heared from Karma. Karma is an engine used by KORG that replaces their old fashioned arpegiator.

I found these video's from the engineer/musician that created KARMA, Steven Kay

http://www.karma-lab.com/vp/klvp2.html?playID=40

Under the Oasys section there are the video's MPL1 to MPL8 that explain the possibilities of KARMA step by step. Just take a few minutes and watch them, its great stuff. Afterwards be sure to also look at the Top of the list video that shows KARMA on open labs NEKO.

I have been interested now in KARMA for some time and been following some discussions all over the internet.

I came to the following conclusions.

KARMA is not a replacement of an auto arranger or an old fashioned arpeggiator.

But:

KARMA could be a great addition to an auto arranger. This is also acknowledged by Steven Kay. He'd love to see KARMA on the next model PA arranger (or any other arranger)
I think the flexibillity and versatality of KARMA could give arrangers the flexibillity they really need and make them finally attractive to the youth.

Anyone overehere that has some experience with KARMA in combination with an arranger ?

Have you been to Steven Kay's website? Of particular interest is the software versions of Karma for products having Karma. This software enables users to create custom Karma GE's This function if ever integrated with Korg's arranger line would enable you to create song's signature licks and activate them with the click of a button. I have the Korg M3 and see how Karma can be a bridge between workstation, and arranger.

It would certainly make them super cool again, and make styles more live sounding. It would also probably allow people with no style programming skills to make styles just be adjusting KARMA settings.

The arranger would certainly become a far more creative tool both young and old would enjoy.

Regards
James

Normally i'd say its up to Korg to make this happen....

But..........

Since any company can get a license for KARMA every company can make this happen...



[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 08-31-2009).]

Korg M3 with Karma for me the same as arranger but for another type of music. After I get Korg M3 at home (is was October 2007) I since turn on my G-70 two or three times only.

If you want gig with evergreens than you need auto arranger. If you want simply to play with music that contemporary and definitely not evergreens then Karma is sufficient. Style of my Karma playing not very different from that of auto arranger: left hand providing harmony, right hand providing solo. "Styles" exists but this is not "sequenced patterns" with intro and ending. It is very hard to explain it in text. Better you go to a music shop and try with any "combi". It is very interesting to improvise with this "combi".

The only thing that missed in Korg M3 is bossa-nova rithm. I am afraid it because my laziness to download bossa-nova "combi" from yet to be determined source in Internet.

So you allready have combo's for cha-cha-cha, samba, tango and polka ?

Or is that still where we need an arranger.
Is it possible to create 8 different scenes in a combo, where every scene is like another "main" in a style?

It does indeed have 8 Scenes per COMBI.

I consider music of 50es and 60es (XX or XIX centuries like cha-cha-cha and polka as evergreens. If you want play this old dance music, than you need old arranger (like G-70 that I own since 13 of January 2005).

But even be-bop and hard rock you can play Karma as well as auto arranger (with 8 style variation), slightly different in flavor. I think that you can program cha-cha-cha and polka in Karma too, but there are no factory preset ("combi") for them. Because when you get Karma, you immediately forget all cha-cha-cha and start to invent completely new music

Contemporary music with many layers of fast synth and slowly moving pads you can't play with arrangers but can play with Karma (e.g. in Korg M3) with same "8 style variations" as in ordinary arranger and chords+solo split in keyboard.

I am not that familiar with Karma, but the one area that I find to be non-intuitive in most of these loop and arp players (MoXS, FantomG, M3/50 etc.) is the matter of triggering arps.

So far, from what I have found out (correct me if I'm wrong), there is NOTHING similar to how arrangers fills work. That is, although arranger fills are one or two (or more) bars long, you can trigger them at any point in a bar, and they will commence playing immediately, but here's the most important thing... they commence from the correct point in the bar that they are triggered on.

So far, all I can find are arps that either start on the 'one', at the end of the bar no matter WHEN in the bar you trigger them, or ones that commence immediately (or on the NEXT beat), but they STILL start on the 'one'...

So... you ask fro a fill on the 'three' and you have a choice between waiting until the one (by which time, it is too late), or getting the fill immediately, but it now is out of sync (the 'one' is now a beat or two too early) and so are your subsequent bars.

Neither of these options are, IMO, musical. Fine, if you like, for music that basically doesn't HAVE fills, or fine for DJ's that can afford to think a bar or two ahead (because they are playing very little themselves), but for pretty much anything OTHER than straight ahead DJ type music (including much modern music - alternative rock, emo, basically anything played by HUMANS ), pretty much useless.

Until this is fixed, I'm afraid that Karma (if so hobbled) and other loop tools just don't cut it. They stifle spontaneity and creativity in all but DJ style music. If you have any dialog with the designers of these types of instruments, the arranger system of fills needs to be added to current triggering options before many of us (including those that DO a bit of loop music) can really use them for day to day operation.

It honestly seems that so little needs to be added before we can all adopt them without the paradigm shift in the way we play them needing to be changed (for the worse!)...

Hello, i am an intense everyday user of KARMA Soft and on the Synth. KARMA is not really hard to explain
at least for me but it is hard to understand for a Mortal user. KARMA is not an arranger nor we'll ever
be, it does not act like one, it doesnt have same CHORD recognition, it doesn not have same NTT
table, nothing, NOTHING is the same. KARMA doesnt create Variation but only scenes where mostly
only one Scene can be Original, each Scene then is created based on the first pattern, not as on
Arranger where each Variation can be created from scratch.
Bachus, KARMA has 8 Scenes and 4 Modules (Tracks) but if you use KM3 then you have 32 Scenes
and 6 Modules and no, it wont work as MAIN on a style, it is wayyyyy different.
Diki:
KARMA on KORG has no FILL functions, can be implemented with workarounds but is not worth doing
it especially for live music. The only KARMA that has Arranger like Fill function is the OL KARMA on
NEKO, i already discussed that with Stephen...he might think about it on next upgrate of KARMA 2.5.
As for the Arps starting at ONE or wherever dont let it confuse you, they work as arrangers, you can set
them up the way you want but as i said, there is no Fill on Korg's KARMA.
You say UNTIL THIS IS FIXED and there is NOTHING, NOTHING to be fixed on KARMA so dont mix
the 2 together, KARMA is not an arranger, it wont be an arranger and there is no need for FIXING
arranger functions. What KARMA was meant to be it is, it is PERFECT with no bugs nor anything.
We are never satisfied and always try to turn one thing into another. KARMA is KARMA and hence
the KARMA, if it was an arranger would be called PA2X or something else.
I hope certain things are more clear now for some people that dont know.
If someone has speciffic questions feel free to ask since i know the KARMA system in and out.

Nedim

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 08-31-2009).]