Since the economy may not allow people to buy TOTL arrangers what would be a way for arranger manufacturers to possibly expand their market and keep their current customers happy without making a TOTL arranger?
Why not an arranger module.
Cheap ($1000 or less), full midi implementation, small, under 10 LBS and gives a preview of what is to come in their new TOTL arranger once the economy gets better.

This would be for persons who have keyboards already. And for those who have workstations that have a little of the arranger technology and the player wants to get in to arranger playing but not spend a lot of money.

I am thinking maybe Korg or Roland could take advantage of this (as we know Yamaha does not look at what could be economically feasible for the customer).

So if you have a G70 Motif xs or a T3, and like the Korg sounds and styles, or just want a little variety, if there were a Korg arranger module you could have that an not spend a lot of money (buying a PA 2x pro or PA 800).
The key to it is that it would have to be affordable. Because it would not be a necessary product but a desirable one. It would give a non Korg user a taste and may win them over when the next TOTL arranger comes out for Korg. Any manufacturer could do this Roland, Yamaha, Korg or Ketron. Although Ketron would not be able to do this right.
now.

In the case of Korg, Yamaha or Roland, they can have the module based on their current TOTL arrangers with a few of the sounds and features of their next TOTL arranger.

I just think the Ketron really is in a bad situation releasing a TOTL arranger in this economy. I don’t think that Korg, Yamaha or Roland would be putting out a TOTL until there are signs of the economy picking up.

What this does is that they do not have to rush to release a TOTL arranger they can continue to work and perfect on features before the release of the TOTL arranger.
JMO

No, I think Ketron doing right in try to make a new arrangerkeyboard different from others,
but whats wrong is that they put it into the market way to early regarding to how finished
the product are, and also (at least where I live) they price it at the highest price level
that make me wanna open it to see where the diamonds are hidden.
You know, if you're able to put resourses and money in developement projects during the bad
economic times, it's very often good strategy that may pay out well over time.
when you're at the bottom of a wave, it usually flat out and start go upwards again.

It's good to see that Ketron dare to develope now when others like Technics and Gem are
gone, Roland discontinued the top of the line arrangers, and Yamaha practically just milking
the market by release new top end with minor changes.
Korg seem to be silent and cooled down, and maybe they will pop up and surprice us?

But, Ketron most stop think we are going to pay that high price to be betatesters if they
want to keep happy and stable customers!

Cheers
GJ

And that is exactly my point.
A ground breaking TOTL arranger is going to cost a lot of money.
That is why Ketron is in a bad position.
Now before people say there is nothing ground breaking in the Audya, whether you like the concept or not or whether it performs the way you want it or not, it is doing something that no other arranger does. It plays audio parts in a style other than drums.
It is as ground breaking as T2 having SA voices.

Back to the topic, it may behoove Korg or Roland not to put out a TOTL arranger right now. I think Roland is following this path as they have only put out a low-end arranger (which is a very good low end) GW 8.

And, it seems as if they are testing out some of the new features that would be on their next TOTL arranger.

Since Korg has the PA 2x and 800 out for a whiled, and instead of giving OS updates for free, what is wrong with making a little money and putting a module out and previewing their next TOTL arranger and could possibly attract new Korg arranger fans.

Ketron already do an arranger module called the SD3.

Designing, Developing, Tooling and Producing a new arranger module is just as expensive as a new arranger keyboard, therefore while bringing out a module of an existing arranger may be economically viable, (There is still all the tooling costs to take into account) no manufacture will make one unless they are 100% sure that they can easily re-coup their costs.

Best way to bring it forward is to petition the manufactures so that they know the demand is there.

Bill

If a manufacturer is in business and wanting 100% surety of recouping cost, they should not be in business.

I believe the module helps the strike a balance between Yamaha and Korg’s approach to updating an existing keyboard.

Korg has some features they want to add they release a free update to the OS )no revenue for Korg excellent for the customer).
Yamaha has some features they want to add they release a new keyboard ( New revenue for Yamaha not good for customer they have to buy another keyboard around same price as the old one).

With a module, it is a win win situation. Company gets additional revenue and possibly new customers and consumer does not have to pay full price for a new keyboard but gets some additional features.
The price will be very important in this strategy it MUST be affordable.

Could it be the time for arranger modules? Something that could get in the hands of arranger and workstations users alike?


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 11-01-2009).]

Depend if it's directed to the "pro" or private/amateur market.

If the equipment are a tool for your income, it's more a matter of how long time (number of gigs)
before you start to earn any money.
If it's for fun, it's a question about interests an if your bankaccount are well filled

GJ

I fully agree with the post by "to the genesys"

His comments are almost identical to what I have said when, some time ago, I made a post on here and also on another site regarding the lack of modules.

I have, in the past, already written to Roland and Korg because both of these companies have previously sold some of their products in module form.

Ketron is alone among the arranger manufacturers in that they have always produced a module. I still use a Solton MS40 - still ultra reliable after many years of use and humping around on gigs. This has a few sounds which are still better than some on both my Tyros3 & Technics KN7000.

The Ketron SD3 is a brilliant module, let down only because it has stuck with the outdated floppy disk rather than build in a USB pen drive fitting. It can be bought with a Hard Drive but this is a rip-off by Ketron - the price difference is disgusting when you consider the cheap prices of giant hard drives which are on the market now.

As I have stated before, If every manufacturer offered a module, I would definitely buy them all - easy to swap around (or even use in unison) and there is no better way of sussing a keyboard out without a big spend. It was the use, many years ago, of a Technics SMAC 1200 module, (which I still have - working perfectly) which turned me onto Technics keyboards and led to me buying many of their products. This should be all the incentive any manufacturer needs.
Tony

nah....too may wires to hook up who wants to carry & setup more stuff to gigs........instead I'd like to see them bring back Pro looking "BLACK" keyboards!!
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=439

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-01-2009).]

You are correct about Korg and Roland coasting along and not about to produce a new TOTL (or even an MOTL)in the near, or perhaps, not so near future.

You have to sell new keyboards to make a profit...updating for free is fine, as long as you have something new and fresh to stimulate new buyers.

Neither Korg nor Roland have anything that you could call "new" waiting in the wings...Korg's free DNC upgrade was introduced as a stop gap measure, so they could still compete with Yamaha's relentless forward motion with SA voices, and then SA2.

It seems more like a desperate move, to my feeling, because without the DNC, the PA series was no better than the G70, and not at all in the same lofty category as an SA and Mega voiced equipped Tyros2, let alone a Tyros3.

I also think that Roland and Korg aren't as financially healthy as one might suppose...in fact, maybe Korg will need rescuing by Yamaha once again.

Think of it...neither Roland or Korg have anything to compare with SA, and now, the T3's (and S910's) new Guitar NTT's and the former's new SA2 voices, have them pushed further back.

I suspect Korg and Roland are strapped for cash regarding arranger Research and Development...partly due to the economy, and, especially in Roland's case, very poor MOTL and TOTL arranger sales.

Not sure how Korg arrangers are doing, but in my district, even Roland outsold them in TOTL sales...and there were two G-70's sold here.

Having said that, we do have a healthy arranger market in my territory...I'm doing a lot of clinics on Yamaha arrangers (Roland and Korg don't do diddly), and I'm sure it not only benefits Yamaha arrangers, but arrangers in general, as not everyone is not going to want the Yamaha sound coming out of their speakers (a lot do, just the same) and will inquire about Roland and Korg, if that's their bag.

So, it may also be likely that Korg may come out with a low end arranger (like the GW-8) to compete, and also to try and recoup the losses interred from R&D with the PA-series, and like Roland, they'll use the current technology (maybe even using DNC, to give them an edge over the GW-8 and McPrelude)...I can't see either company coming out with a new TOTL.

Yamaha's strategy, despite all it's critics, of introducing incremental (and not so incremental) changes every three years or so, is obviously working...automobile makers in Japan have been doing this for decades...you have to have fresh produce to bring them to the market, otherwise they'll go the flea-market.

Yamaha, like Korg, Roland and Ketron, look at what is economically feasible for themselves...not what is economically feasible for the customer...if they don't, they won't be in business very long.

Business is business, and business is profit, and profit means staying in business.

Sure, it may seem stupid (or greedy) to us consumers, but if it's stupid and it works...it isn't stupid.

If they weren't greedy ("profitable" is a better word), they'd be out of business, and we'd all have to buy Mediastations, since Dom is not a greedy person.

Of course, with the economic downturn, he may have to put one pickle less on his sandwich, and maybe use Casio styles instead of lifting Yamaha's.

And, there won't be an arranger module by any of the Big Three....Yamaha doesn't need to make one, as Tyros/PSR sales are already healthy, and Korg and Roland can't afford the R&D.

Again, these are my personal opinions...I don't claim any insider knowledge of any of the aforementioned companies...at least no more than you do.

Quote Dnj:
nah....too may wires to hook up who wants to carry & setup more stuff to gigs........instead I'd like to see them bring back Pro looking "BLACK" keyboards!!

Some are not interested in modules & I respect that but some of us love them.

Much easier than carrying 2 keyboards, as I used to before I started using Modules. Wires needed (2) are just the same as a those for a second keyboard - just 1 midi cable & 1 audio lead. Setting up my Solton MS40 module takes less than 1 minute and repays me infinitely with the extra sounds at my command.

Some may be sold on Pro looking BLACK keyboards - I don't care whether my gear looks Pro or not as long as it sounds good.
Two different sources of sounds & styles bring far more variation of the total sound you create and each fills in the other's weak spots.
Tony