TAIKE & TONY....et al...

I do not agree! No lessons for me at all. My love of music drove me to learn to read the treble clef at age 10 on the church piano...

I listened to music constantly. Learned the melodies and words through my ears. Never had a piano in my home until my very gifted musical daughter received one as a gift from our church when she was 10.

I bought a 12 bass accordian when I first married and self-taught enough to entertain myself and a few others....

In 1994 a friend had an arranger keyboard and I knew that I could learn how to play "basic chords".....

My audiences tell me I am talented and also a great entertainer.... That works for me really well!

I have several friends who did have lessons as children. Only a very few of them still play! My daughter is the exception as are all of you Zonies....

My daughter has two of my Technics arrangers. (I have 3!) She also has her piano and at least one guitar. She composes, sings and plays as well as offers her own "snappy patter" which is what I call "entertaining"....

The lady who taught my daughter to read/play piano asked my permission to do so when she heard my daughter's voice... The teacher/choir director asked her to pick songs she wanted to learn to play and they were off and running! I listened from another room and could not tell which one was playing most of the time!

I really think whether or not a player is good or not has to do with the desire within the individual...

From my own and my daughter's experience... we have both been driven from within to keep learning as we play....

Frankly, I am glad that I did not have any formal training. However, I would have liked having a teacher like the one my daughter had!

Elizabeth..


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Elizabeth ... it is a RARE person indeed who, self taught, will be as accomplished a musician as one who has had formal training ...

But we all set our own goals and levels at which we are happy with what we do ... I am not as accomplished as many here, but I play and sing and people tell me they enjoy it - and PAY me to do it - ... so I am happy ... but would I be happier having had more formal musical training, I think yes ...

t.

I think it depends on the individual, and the drive, like you said, to learn an instrument. Some people are born with more talent than others, but I think all can benefit from some formal training. Take theory eg. I am self taught with the exception of a year of lessons. Those lessons gave me the foundation to proceed on my own. With a little theory, I began to see the structure and rules for forming any chord in any key.
Bernie

Taking piano lessons is a bit controversial with me. The majority of people who ever learned via lessons cannot play a lick today. Why? Because all they learned was how to sight read. Which they forgot, over time. If a child takes lessons and never learns how to play by ear, in 20 years, she probably will have forgotten how to play. And certainly will be lost without sheet music in front of her. I don't know all the answers but whatever it takes, I'd encourage learning to play by ear in addition to sight reading.

A good teacher will teach you how to play music before they teach you how to read music.

Think of it; you don't teach a person how to read before they learn how to talk.

The most important function of a teacher, in my opinion, is to maintain a gradual but interesting level of learning, so that the student doesn't move ahead too fast and get discouraged, or too slowly, and get bored and fed up.

I feel lucky to have had lessons (8 years classical, plus the Yamaha Method)) and be able to read music, as well as charts (including the Nashville number system) and it has allowed me much more freedom in where, and how, I use my craft.

You never know where your child will go in the music business, so it's best to have a good foundation.

It's like learning to read and write, and do basic math....it makes things a whole lot easier.

Ian

Edited to add...

You are never too old to learn how to read music, even if you've spent most of your life playing by ear (or by "air" as it used to be called).

I'm teaching a pro piano player (he plays pretty darn good) how to read Fake Book music...he loves it! He'll be 70 the end of this month. He's doing very well, because he has good musical sense to begin with.





[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-20-2009).]

Seems like the topic has shifted from 'should I teach my child myself or get someone outside the family' to 'should a child even TAKE lessons or should they be left to learn to play by ear'. I won't go so far as to say it's a dumb question, but I think the answer is pretty obvious and the supporting evidence is pretty overwhelming. Everyone benefits from (good) instruction, I defy anyone to show me a self-taught, play-by-ear type who can play with the speed, accuracy, and agility of a trained musician, especially on piano. Does anyone in the world think that Oscar Peterson or Bill Evans or even Art Tatum would have been better off without benefit of formal training? Get real. Knowing how to read music doesn't prohibit or inhibit you from 'playing by ear' or improvisation. If anything, it enhances that capability. We all know people with rather good reading skills who can't play anything without the music. These people either have no natural talent OR have no interest in acquiring that skill OR had the kind of restrictive teaching environment that didn't allow or encourage these particular skills. Check the guys in say Jay Leno's or David Letterman's band. I'll bet they are some of the best readers in the business and I also bet that each and every one of them could 'sit in' on any session and jam with the best of them.

Always, always, choose assisted education over self-taught where a specific and complex skill is involved. No matter what 'self-taughts' may tell you (Tony has it right), they all wish they could just whip out a never-before-seen sheet of music and be able to play it, either note for note or embellished, their choice. JMO (which happens to right, in this case ).

chas

Chas is right. A lot of experienced players who are self-taught (including me) will tell you that they really wished that they had had formal training. That includes many very well-known players in every genre; some at the top of their field.

I had to "woodshead" and ask for informal assistance with reading when I started doing studio work in La in the mid-60's, and that has helped me immensely.

Wish I had chased fewer "skirts" and worked harder on getting formal training when I was young.

(Just kidding about regretting the "skirts" part).

Chas is also right about formally trained musicians who are less than stellar in live situations. There are several music professors from the state Universtiy here who are competing in the local market.

I "kick their asses" on a regular basis. They're really no serious competition, but I really do wish I had gotten formal training as a kid.

I was too busy trying to afford food for me and my brothers from the age of 14.


Russ

Irishacts- I can indeed relate to what your going through. My daughter is 6, she takes ballet,tap, choir/drama, violin and piano. I highly recommened you get a teacher that is commited to developing her aural skills and making music fun. The Suzuki method is outstaning in this regard. My daughter does Suzuki violin and has a great teacher. I got my daughter started on the piano using the Bastine books, and trying to incorporate Suzuki principles and it has worked well. After a awile I sent her with a teacher and she progressed even more but it was hard to keep up with both her piano and violin classes plus her other activities. She asked me if I could be her teacher again. We sit down together just about everyday and have fun playing music. I try to encourage, keep things fun, low presure and enjoyable. We do games with the songs she learning and with ear training too. Eventually I'd like to get her with a piano teacher but time is tight and I really haven't found the right teacher.

Thanks a million for all your excellent advice guys. I'll get my wife to have a read of this thread tonight. She's the boss you know

Cheers
James

Assuming your daughter has an arranger keyboard, ideally having some lessons that teach some traditional piano along the way but, most importantly the chord method so she can have quick success sounding good playing real songs. Learning chord piano and being able to play the arranger part using the same correct chords is ideal.

It is important if that's what you want to do is to consider that a traditional piano teacher, even if she is using a method that teaches chords, teaches them in a way that doesn't use all of the chord notes and doesn't translate well to switch from piano to arranger mode.

Example, the traditional piano method of teaching chords is CEG for a C chord and BFG for a G7 chord. You can see this system will take you above the usual split on most keyboards and goes below the lowest note on an arranger keyboard if chords are played all the way to the left. The system that I have found works the best and teach is playing all chords between C - C always favoring the bottom, that is if the chord is Dm7 use the bottom C intead of the top C. It works out better in the long run for comfortable fingering. Later after a student is playing well and fluently other inversions can always be included if desired.

If you consider the piano class option, I would really check that out a lot, because in my experience every child that has had piano class can hardly play.

I'll give you an example. I have a student that I started when he was 8. He is now 11. He has ADHD like you've never seen it. Sliding off the bench, rolling around on the floor, standing on his head during lessons and a lot of variations.

In about 4 months using the chord piano method I mentioned, he played Silent Night in church using 4 part harmony. Everyone was floored.

A mother of an 11 year old straight A student who had taken piano class for about 3 years at the local Junior College was especially floored, because the boy with ADHD blew away what her daughter could do.

The daughter started taking lessons with me and I was astounded at the lack of playing knowledge and ability she had. I've had other students that took piano classes and none of them, even playing at their best sounded like anything. Partly because traditional piano lessons were used exclusively.

I wish you the best in finding a good local teacher. In case you are interested, I do teach long distance lessons.

If you would like any other info that you think might help you find a good local teacher or whatever, let me know, I would be glad to give you all info you might need in finding a teacher everyone will be happy with. I have Skype so I can call internationally if you want to chat.

Best
Scott http://ScottLMusic.com/Lessons