Thing is, chas, I don't discuss my Triton or Kurzweil here, I don't post about tips and tricks for it, I don't expect that people here will find it very useful. There are Korg Forums and Kurzweil forums for those WS's, and THAT'S where I go to to listen and discuss those keyboards. No-one there much wants to hear about my arranger, it's a WS forum... and no-one, to be quite frank, has much use or skill to use here for a Groove WS VSTi player.

We've already had five years or so of listening to mostly godawful user AND factory demos of the MS when it tried to be an arranger. It was a complete bust. It was a GREAT VSTi player, with a really awful arranger front end (c'mon, man! No Bass inversions after five years? ) and a terrible selection of styles and basic soundset. Sure, you COULD make it sound better, but it is obvious no-one succeeded at that task, not even the manufacturer!

So, now it's a WS/Groove production tool. Great! And now, it belongs on the Groove/WS forum. It's not that those things don't get an occasional mention here, but Jeez! Dom can't sneeze without it gets trumpeted here. No-one comes here and touts every new OS upgrade to K2600's, or M3's or FantomG's, or tries to discuss them seriously with us. They do it on the forum that the users of those products populate. Sure, every now and again, they pop up on our radar. But give the Lionstracs products a rest, already! They LONG ago failed on the whole to pass muster with us.

I wish the Lionstracs people all the best, think they have got a great product, and wish them nothing but success... In the WS world. But they don't belong here, other than peripheral discussion. This incessant info blitz is out of place. Kurzweil users don't bring their baggage here, MotifXS users don't bring their baggage here, and for this to remain the General ARRANGER forum, neither should Lionstracs. They decided they no longer want to develop an arranger. Good for them! I'm sure they'll take off now they have woken up to who their REAL market is.

It just ain't us...

You are right it is not your problem now. You should have hired someone to market your product properly years ago as it has been painfully obvious for years that you lacked any competance in that department . At least finally your product has a chance to be marketed directly to the right end users hopefully in a way that shows it in its best light . I am confident that megaaudio will make a better job of marketing your product than you have....I mean they cant do much worse can they ???

Good luck Dom :-)

Yeah, maybe you're right, Diki. But for some reason, it just doesn't seem to bother me as much. It's not like he's on here every day; usually just occasionally to announce a 'new' OS upgrade (which, sadly, sometimes also requires a major hardware upgrade ). I just view Dom as an entrepreneur swimming upstream in a strong current. Undaunted, ever optimistic, and with an undeniably unique product (which may or may not be ahead of it's time, and which is still trying to define itself). In fact, aren't there just as many Mediastation owners here as ,say, Wersi owners (personally, I'd rather have a Mediatation or GROOVE ). We constantly hear all the latest about that home organ disguised as an uber-expensive arranger with cabinetry that's garantees that it won't be moved for at least 20 years once you get it home. Not much interest there either, but nobody complains.

Hey, you have to root for the underdog, don't you? The first guys out of the gate always get clobbered but somebody's got to be first, right? When he does finally 'get it right' and has a stable, correctly priced, usable musical instrument that represents a great 'bang for the buck' for it's intended use, Chas and Diki will be among the first to line up for one . When that time comes, we might as well hear it here first .

From now on, all of his marketing will be done by his distributor, so what's the point of dumping on him now. For all practical purposes, he's outta' here. JMO.

chas

for people like diki and others who say, why we talk about lionstracs products. a forum is a place for things to write about. In this case arrangers. for people who have ever used a Roland G1000, know that it was sold as a workstation, but it had arranger function. it does not matter whether you think about lionstracs keyboard products, or see the MS or Groove as an arranger or workstaion. You must be free to write about things within forum rules. to look on what products are discussed in this forum lately. It is Yamaha Ketron Wersi-lionstracs and sometimes korg. if we do not talk about this products what are you talking about in this forum?

I think diki will begin again, with all his observations known. short diki we already know what you think about these products. but as a keyboard lover, when I see those new products, an arranger or they complete an arranger, no matter or it is a synth module or whatever, I talk about it in this forum. and it is not outside forum rules. but insulting people is outside all rules.

you are free to write-domenico is free and other users are free to write about things but inside forum rules respect for each other.

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 01-02-2010).]

Hi spalding



I saw the keyboard running on OS 4.0, switching between multiple desktops screens, a number of very cool VSTi's launched, two DVD's playing back at the same time, a wave file streaming and being adjusted in real time as well as the dedicated hardware sliders being used to adjust other things like EQ real-time.

When you look at it like that, there is quite a lot to be impressed at.



If you look at the video title and the opening text, the demo does indeed cover everything it was supposed to cover. It was never going to be demonstration to answer all your questions about the keyboard, it was only a demo to show OS 4 running.



Workstation / DAW users, which are the majority of keyboard players in this world.
If you read my last reply I go into more detail on this.



Sort of the same questions as number 3, but the reason why I believe it's for workstation and DAW users is because it's a PC running Linux that acts as a VST HOST and comes with dedicated hardware controls and custom software that allows it to all be merged into one seamless package.

Sort of like everything workstation and DAW users need and are already doing only without the headache and the need for multiple pieces of equipment. Not to mention it's for technically minded people who are comfortable with computers and the need to program and sequence entire songs track by track, just as every workstation user does.

My previous post covers some of this too.



Everything the title of the video says. OS 4.0 running with multiple desktops but they didn't point out that it was also running a lot of software at the same time. You have notice that yourself and appreciate it for all it is.



It's a video to demo OS 4.0 and multiple desktops, nothing more.



Personally I was very impressed by the video because I could see what Lionstracs were trying to demonstrate with OS 4.0, but more importantly I could also see what was running in the background during all this.

It's quite a list of program running and if it were me doing the demo, I would have made it blatantly clear to anyone watching just want how freaking cool this was and how smooth the system ran everything.

The same can be said of any of the other demo's. You can see what's going on, but it's not exactly a point that Lionstracs are driving home to anyone who is unclear about what they are seeing.



Well I've said it in the past that a product specialist is needed to promote the keyboards through the use of quality demo's. By quality I mean direct line audio into a desk, a tripod but most importantly I would like to see it in a real world situation. By that I mean sitting down in front of the keyboard and laying down a few tracks of a song, showing how the custom software ties all this together and makes the keyboard seamless. Do that and the concept should be clear to everyone.

This is a seriously cool keyboard but a lot of what is being demonstrated is not being explained to people who might not have a clear understanding of what they are looking at, so they may not be appreciated as much as they should.

It also depends where you post the demo's too. A Workstation forum react very differently to this kind of technology than an Arranger forum will. They accept it very easily and the questions are very different.



Yes I've seen it said on the forum many times. I think when you look at the past there have been a number of issues that needed to be overcome as well as the realisation of who the products are to be targeted at.

So the medaistation to me is sort of like a lesson learned and learned very well. The new X-6 Series and the Rack Units that are on the way are seriously prime time targeted at the right people without a shadow of doubt.

A stable system that is truly OPEN. Second Gen and finally ready to be that VST HOST targeted at the workstation and DAW users who are the majority of keyboard players.

Ok, it can work for arranger users too, but arranger users expectations are very different from Workstation and DAW users. Arranger users expect it to be like a closed arranger out of the box. This will simply never happen in my opinion because there is no such thing as a VSTi Arranger program that comes with it's own Engine and Styles.

How the keyboard sounds as an arranger should have never been something Lionstracs should have taken on. They should have only ever focused on the HOST and the integration of all the systems they built.



Yes, Open Labs cover all the things I've even mentioned myself in this post. They focus on the HOST, the systems they built and they demonstrate it in a real world situation by where they sit down and lay down some tracks.

Lionstracs X-6 can do all that too, but it doesn't come across as clear to anyone who may not have a great understanding of what they are looking at in the first place.

Regards
James

Thanks james for your reply.
I'm a little bored to reply here, because also for my not native english language, I can not explain all.

If on the OL the basic application is the Reaper for produce professional music, do not forget that this features is FULL working on the Groove too: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/reaper22.jpeg
here you can see the Reaper on external 22" touch screen, ( we can use now 3 external touch displays)
with the difference that we can run multiple ASIO hosts or VST inside the repare, + the all OS 4 basic application.
Read here and then you can understand what I mean: http://forum.openlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=1569
regards

What a lot of persons seem to forget is that this new product can have arranger capability.
So its place on this forum is very relevant.

Sure arranger features may not be the primary focus and the arranger section may not be developed as fully as it should, but it still has an arranger component and so discussion about it on this forum should be encouraged.

And, as arranger players become more and more like DJS, and as they have the need to play more modern music, and as more and more arranger players see the need for wave/mp3, midi and style integration, this product will become even more relevant to this forum.

In the West you have new generation arranger player who want more.
For example:

midi styles with many intro-variation-endings, fill-ins
audio + midi styles
programmable chords
styles with long recording length.
styles with more than one drumkit,
good style editor
good sound
freedom in choosing the track for a sound and not a permanent track for certain sounds. and more ..................

This and more is possible in just lionstracs qranger. it would be someday the best arranger. but remember you need to know what style programming is this product. or most be special styles made for this product for sale from third party, if you are unhappy with internal styles. do not forget you can also convert styles EMC Style converter



[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 01-02-2010).]

Hi .



No problem, I'm just replying in order to help people understand more about what you were actually demonstrating in the video. As you know this demo was not just about a desktop cube flipping to different desktops. There's actually quite a lot of seriously cool software running here at the same time and not everyone is picking up on that or how smooth OS 4.0 is running.



Yes, anything that runs on Open Labs will run on the Lionstracs plus you have lots more benefits.

The comment about Open Labs is more about the demonstrations presented though as they suite the type of user on this forum better. They get to see the keyboard doing normal day to day things like laying down a few tracks. Sometimes it's the simplest of things that have the biggest impact on people.

Regards
James

Yes, and I would like to add that my comments about the keyboard not being directed at arranger user is not something that applies to everyone either. It's an OPEN keybaord so it can be whatever you want it to be.

My comments is more about the ability of the “““General””” arranger user and their needs. They just expect very different things from Workstation and DAW users. I'm sure there are plenty of arranger users would are technically minded enough and who could turn it into the ultimate arranger / workstation, but in the overall scheme of things they are far and few between.

Where the vast majority of workstation and daw users would take to all this like a duck to water.

Regards
James