Hello Everybody,

I was looking at the software arranger LiveStyler at http://www.live-styler.de/home/ and i wonder if someone tried that ?

how are VST responding, does the processor can manage many vst + live styler, is it stable ?

I know we can hook up a ketron SD2 orchestral sound modules and also wonder how good theses sounds react with a software arranger ?

it's a shame they didn't do an osX version of that

Have a nice day
MJ

The problem that I see with most soft solutions is that, on the whole, VSTi designers don't PRIMARILY design VSTi's for live use. First and foremost they are a studio tool, for integration with DAW's, etc., and often the live use is not prioritized. There's a LOT of things that have to be just right for a soundset to work well as a live stage instrument, not to mention all the other things it needs for arranger integration (how well does it handle 'late' note corrections, for instance?).

How evenly are all the sounds balanced? Can you go from one horn section sound to another without having to make a volume or EQ adjustment? Does one drum kit map EXACTLY onto another, do all the bass sounds respond the same way to velocity? Can you change from a flute sound to a synth sound without having to grab a fader?

There's a LOT more to making a coherent soundset that requires little or no input from the user live than many give credit for... And, I think at this point in time, it is why the software arrangers still struggle to be as easy to use as a closed one.

I agree with Diki...
They sound good but are not designed for true live use. I have used EMU's version 2 and it DOES work fine in a live mode (you can do dynamic bank/prg changes on the fly very nicely)

The other thing not so good with software arrangers is the TOTAL INTEGRATION is not there...you have to do all that yourself...lots of work, and I mean lots.

But, it can work very well if you want to build your own, so to speak.

I have and do use Live-styler V10.

Lee S.

I've been using OMB, LiveStyler's competition, for quite a few years. I use it in conjunction with Gigastudio. Gigastudio IS designed for live playing and it responds to program changes flawlesly. I put together my collection of sounds over the years.
Does anyone know how I can post a demo online for everyone to hear?

How well do ANY of these VSTi's handle the type of instant pitch correction that happens in arrangers when you play a chord slightly late?

Most arrangers bend each note instantly to the new one it is supposed to be without re-triggering the sound. It involves portamento-ing to the new note, with codes to start and stop this when it is done. On multiple notes (for chords) over multiple Parts on multiple channels. It is the one feature that makes less than perfectly precise playing acceptable.

Do any of the VSTi's do this?

There is SO much more to an arranger soundset and engine than many of us think. Unique things that really have no use except for arrangers, to be honest. I just don't see VSTi designers taking this into account, just for little ol' us...

Diki, Very interresting view about the integration needed

I just install a keyboard on Kore 2 and my macbook pro, 2 core, go to 30% cpu while playing just 1 sound , no accompagnment, no beat, nothing, just 1 sound and having fun on the 61 notes..

That will be a difficult integration to do all that in real times, i think i will stick to my 910 hehe

Jick, it's verry east if you want to put something online, you need somes webspace for that, maybe google something like "Free mp3 host"

after you'll put the link in the msg, something like http://your-mp3-host/yourname/yoursong.mp3

Thanks for all the answers guys
MJ

If you just want to post something for others, try http://www.4shared.com/ and set up a free account.

How an arranger handles chord changes is totally down to the arranger software, (Different types of voices require different settings, and while Factory styles are all done for you, if you use a converted style or convert from Midi, you will need to set them manually) so providing the VSTi is setup to receive and act on these changes, (Some sounds are just for solo sounds, like the Yamaha SA voices are) then there is normally no problem.

Like most things it will initially be trial and error until you get the hang of it.
Hope this helps

Bill

Bill, pretty much ALL arrangers got some kind of system to deal with playing a chord fractionally (less than one beat) late. The main way is to instantly 'bend' the note from its' 'wrong value' (you played a C chord after a G7, but slightly late - the arranger plays the G7 on the 'one', but then INSTANTLY changes it to a C chord, but without retriggering the chord) to the right one.

To be honest, I don't know of any soft arrangers, or VSTi's that can do this. Please tell me if you know of some that do...

My BIG complaint is:
When using the ensemble feature IF you play the melody note a fraction ahead of the chord change...you do not get the harmony notes, just the lead!

Drives me crazy.....
My Pa2 does it and if I remember correctly? So did my T2.

What should happen is it picks the harmonys up when the chrd change does happen...

I'm talking about a very short delay here from the lead played until the chord change...milliseconds...so it would sound fine.

Lee S.

Lee S.

Hi Diki
Styles are just Midi Loops, and any slides or bends are also done via Midi, therefore if you transmit this to a VSTi sound instead of the internal sound, then the VSTi will do exactly the same as if it was an internal sound. (Exceptions are voices that use articulations (Hence you never see SA voices in Yamaha styles) which may not react as expected, but you can usually turn these off)
Hope this clears things

Bill

You need polyphonic portamento with a time of zero to be able to achieve this effect. Are you telling me you KNOW for sure that all the soft synths, and VSTi sample sets actually CAN do this?

Or are you assuming?

Are you also assuming that LiveStyler or whatever soft arranger you are using actually SENDS the right codes, too? Or once again just assuming..?

I'd be interested to hear if these really ARE implemented. Got a web page you can direct me to to see the specs?

Hi Diki
Both the Wersi OAS arranger (Over 10 years old and the most basic (Primitive) arranger on the planet) and the Wersi OAA (One of the more advanced arranger sections on the market) send this information, (Manually selectable for when using converted styles or Midi to style conversions) and they work on both Akai samples and VSTi with no problems. (Closed arrangers may or may not have these options user selectable as all new voices are provided by the manufacture, whereas Open keyboards or software have no option but to include them, as there is no way the manufacture can know what the user is going to use)
Note: Wersi calls these options Pad Mode in OAS, and they come under Edit Pattern in the OAA
http://www.4shared.com/file/118234194/6ebca341/OAA_Screenshots.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/118477498/50adc7b2/OAS_Style_Screenshots.html


Regards

Bill

[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 01-29-2010).]

I have been playing with live styler for some time now...

Its fun for at home, and while i can play all yamaha styles nothing works straight out of the box. Everything needs to be eddited.

Since i work under Linux (i can use multiple vst hosts under Linux) much of the stuff i use can also be found in the mediastation, whenever i have a great setup for my styles it sounds better then on T3, with a good top of the line Quad core processor and 8 gigs of memmory i barely get above 70 or 80% processor power, even when layering multiple sounds on every track.

I use NI complete as the base of my arranger, but many other vst's in addition to that.

I only play in my home, and i don't know if i would use a set-up like this when gigging.
The solution is stable enough for sure, no crashes even when doing some very strange things. But somehow i think i would prefer a combination of arranger and solo synth when gigging with some of my VST sounds comming intoo the Mix as solo voices too.

I currently have an 88 key master keyboard connected to my PC set-up and i am considering a seccond (61 keys board) but i am also tempted to invest intoo adding a V-synth or an M3(KARMA)

IF Korg would add KARMA to the next line of PA arrangers, i would certainly buy it..
And i am still considering a solution like mediastation or Open labs (if they only allowed multiple ASIO ports) to replace my PC set-up.

I play all kinds of music depending on my mood, from classical to jazz, from european folk to house. Its all possible with a software setup.

Live styler is a good product and not too expensive, so just try it out if you want to, and get your own opinion, as that is what matters most. There are enough free vst's of good and stellar sound quallity to start out with before investing any more money...

Keep in mind that with the costs of these vst's its not necessarilly a cheeper solution then a TOTL arranger.

I sent back my psr-s910 to the store today and get out with a new Korg M3

I must say that the keybed of the M3 vs the 910 is stellar and there's Karma that is soooo awesome + Zillions of functions ...

Bachus: Thanks, will try livestyler with Komplete as it seems a nice alternative to entertain myself at home with the M3 as a controller.

MJ

Hi Bahcus
This should suit you then, as it’s available for Mac, Windows and Linux http://jackaudio.org/
Regards

Bill