There's absolutely nothing about an arranger that is intrinsically any more expensive that a WS. They all got keys, buttons, knobs, sliders, a nice big display, some outputs and some inputs. And don't tell me it's the content, there's just as much content in a MoXS or M3 as there is in a T3 or PA2.

But look what you get for the same price as an S910... NOBODY makes a WS with as cheesy a keybed at that price. The same money as an S910 (Yamaha's VERY MOTL arranger, especially construction-wise) buys you an 88 wooden key Korg M50 MUCH better keybed, knobs, switches, etc... MOTL of their line. Same for the Yamaha MO line, Roland Juno Stage, etc.

Now, us 50+ year old players aren't idiots (though you'd think so from how arranger makers treat us), most of us can see just how much MORE you get if you get a WS. Quality, features, capabilities, construction, you name it. Quite likely the 'home' buyer isn't looking at WS's, so they might be content to pay whatever they are asked to, but the pro has to walk past a wall of very competitive priced WS's to see the horribly overpriced toy construction arranger tucked away in the corner, as if it is ashamed...

Which it ought to be, given that price!

If they are going to ask that price, why can't they include the same quality of construction that the exact same company can put on its' WS line at the same price point..?

We are being raped, and SOME of us seem to be happy about it Stockholm Syndrome, plain and simple...

I do take your point Diki, its not nice to know that your paying for something someone else is getting for half the price.

The arrangers do have a whole lot more software development to take into consideration though, and these days 'that' time is likely more expensive than the components they are made of.

Unfortunately someone has to pay for the research costs and its normally the flagship buyers. So Tyros owners probably paid for the bulk of R&D of the S910 and over a period of years it will filter right down through the product line so that eventually the little keyboards in schools will have SA voicing and song libraries.

If it didn't happen this way you would never have lower cost items at the low end. Can you imagine the price of, say a Hammond XK1 if the cost of developing VASE III had been passed on to that keyboard instead of the B3?

(Followed by a hilariously wrong assumption about income, car prices and instrument prices.)

I don't know where you get your numbers from, but you made me laugh out loud.


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- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

The arranger has far more useful content than a workstation...that's why it costs more.

It's content also costs more to develop.

It's far more useful on a gig than a workstation...something you have boasted about on this forum many times.

Don't worry...I agree with you.

Now, your G70 was way more money than a far better feeling, fully loaded 88 note weighted action workstation (let alone a better feeling 76'er), and yet you bought one. Actually, you bought two of them.

At gunpoint?

You can't rape the willing.

Either that, or you, and the rest of us who use arrangers, are hypocrites, and I seriously doubt that, my friend.

BTW, I've never had one complaint about the PSR-S910's price...not one.

Considering you are getting most of the content of a T3 (and actually, more than any equivalently priced arranger), it is a definite bargain.

I do understand that coming to any PSR keyboard from a weighted, or semi-weighted action would surely make the keyboard feel lighter to the touch, but they are fast, smooth, have terrific velocity response (you can actually play a key very slowly and there is no sound; the same as a piano)...and very reliable.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-30-2010).]

Those are the kinds of 'general truths' that are 'specific lies'. Obviously, it depends on the gig. There are hardly any jazz gigs where that statement would be true. In a classic coffee house setting, mightn't a singer/songwriter with an acoustic guitar be better suited to the gig than some guy whaling away on his Tyros 3 (in fully orchestrated compressed CD mode ).

We have to stop using general statements to make our point. Somebody is liable to believe you.

chas

Generally true, Chas, but we have already established that although a dedicated and accomplished jazz player might not buy an arranger, there are exceptions like Oscar Peterson, and perhaps yourself and Pasodoble (Noel)...but, no, you probably would not gig with one.

Tell me, why would a guy like Oscar, buy a PSR-9000 Pro, over a workstation?

Since this is a "general arranger forum", I'm confident that your use of generalised statements is as legit as mine.

Generalizations or not, I'm sure people will still believe what they want, anyway.

Ian




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-30-2010).]

Temporary insanity?????? Why do (some) people eat pig intestines (chitterlings, aka chitlins' in the South)? Why do birds sing (actually, it's more like a 'tweet'....so shouldn't they be credited with 'Twitter'?).

The thing is, did Oscar GIG with a 9000 Pro? I've dated a lot of ladies that I wouldn't bring home to Momma. Lots. Besides, wasn't Oscar a consultant or contributor to Keyboard magazine at one point. Lots of famous musicians have toyed around with 'electronica'; Miles, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, are just a few that come to mind. But nobody associates them with anything other than their primary instrument. I'm sure lots of great drummers have electronic kits or even drum machines, but you won't find them gigging with them, especially the drum machine, the drummers equivalent of an arranger.

This is the second time you've used Oscar and the 9000Pro in the same post. I'd be careful......Oscar may be listening......and frowning .

chas

Now that I've had more time to think about it, it was probably the Canadian influence that prompted him to buy an arranger .

chas

Possibly, one of your clinics.

chas

Probably not, but that does preclude the 9000 pro from being more useful, and easier to use than a workstation.

I spent a few hours with Oscar, showing him how the 9k worked...nice man.

Still not a piano player on this earth that can compare, in my opinion.

Ian