I'd like to know if you think manufacturers design things in a stupid way on purpose. Like a vocal harmony that does not have a light on it, so that you cannot tell if it is on or off. Many other things. Such as a vocal harmony button that you certainly would use if you are gigging... and you can barely reach it, it's so far away. Who, in their right mind would design something like that?

List your gripes. And if you think they do it on purpose, expand, please. Why would they do this?

They do little bad things on one model so that they can make the next model sound like an improvement by fixing the little bad things on the prier model. A good business technique.

They put the button far away so that you go out and buy one of their foot pedals. On top of that, people that design these things are engineers, not gigging musicians!

As genesys said, if they designed it right the first time, what would entice you to buy the new model.

Finally, YES they do it on purpose. Millions of dollars are spent on market research and methods to reach into our pockets, for as little cost as possible. They will not spend any money to create something new and spectacular because they know that we will buy their stuff anyways. In a sense, one could say that they are exploting our emotional attachment to music and new toys!!!

They know exactly what we would like to have in a keyboard, but it is so much more cost effective to include it in incremental steps.

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 02-10-2010).]

Unfortunately, most arranger keyboard manufacturers spend little or no time at all obtaining input from consumers. And, I sincerely believe that most of the folks in the R&D department have never been in front of an audience as an OMB entertainer or group performer as a musician or singer. Consequently, you end up with features you'll never use, buttons that are rarely accessed by anyone other than someone in a studio setting, and vocal processors that are marginal at best. I'm equally confident that if a manufacturer DID spend some time talking with individual players such as those that frequent this, and other, similar forums, they would come up with a great keyboard that had all the features we've been hoping to see for more than a decade.

The flip side of the coin is that arranger keyboards have so many features that you could literally spend years learning how to effectively use all of them. Keep in mind, however, that most arranger keyboard user manuals are so poorly written that if a novice tries to learn the inner workings of his or her keyboard by reading the instructions, they will go completely insane. Thankfully, forums such as this one, and those dedicated to specific brands of keyboards are loaded with knowledgeable folks that can provide answers to most of the questions not addressed in the manuals.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary,

Thats about as accurate as anyone can get and who pray tell manufacture 90% of the KBARR!

Regards

As far as deliberate sabotage, I think that it goes on occasionally for lower models.

I think that Yamaha deliberately keeps the TALK ON/OFF and VOCAL HARMONY ON/OFF buttons off the PSR-S910 because there is not very much feature difference between it and the Tyros 3 while there is such a big price difference.

I thought of sabotage with the PSR-700 - the top midrange keyboard of the time about 12 years ago - which didn't have a floppy drive even though this was widely available. You only had 1mb of memory.

I really thought of sabotage when the PSR-2000 and PSR-2100 came out. The predecessor, the PSR-700 had two intros and endings, as opposed to three for the top dog, the PSR-9000. They gave the PSR-2000 and one year later the PSR-2100 three intros and endings with only one button each to activate them. You had to go into a submenu to choose your intro or ending! This was so inconvenient, that I missed the mere two intros and endings on my previous model.

They also had to shuffle through floppies on these models even though there were many other cheap mass storage options that had been available on computers for years.

Starting with the PSR-3000, I feel like Yamaha started to get things right.

I do get frustrated though. I have a patter between songs that makes me need to use the TALK ON/OFF function, and I get frustrated that there isn't a dedicated button. At least once a performance, I start a song with the TALK on which takes away all the reverb from the song and voice.

Beakybird

lol. I don't think its deliberate...just when the Patrician hardware and software designers "forget" to ask the Plebeian musicians!

Arrangers have always been designed for the home player not the gigging musician, (That pros use them just shows how versatile they are) so the priorities are different.
Sorry to say, but if you expect to see items specifically for the pro player, then you will need to avoid the arranger, as you’re not really considered during development.
If you look at most OMB over the world, they use a keyboard workstation and/or organ with a separate computer or module for the backing, (Ketron seem to be the de facto standard for backing modules) not an all in one arranger.

Bill

sorry...double post

[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 02-11-2010).]

Definitely in the UK Tyros is blatantly targeted at ex home organists, Korg is somewhere in between and have a strong Arabic/oriental following here. The only exception are Ketron who make instruments primarily for professional/semi professional musicians.

TWD