Hi Diki.



I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just going to say this highly subjectively from a legal point of view.

I see two problems with what your saying.

1: Your talking about data that is NOT provided royalty free.
2: Your talking about a software package or a products that has been completely copied.

Fact is the styles are royalty free and there are part of a musical instrument. You can't exactly steal something that's free unless your charging money for the free data.



I don't think so because the data is royalty free and he's also not the developer of the Software that is going to play back the styles.

It's the same as your Gun and Bullets example. It's very easily argued. For example, who is to blame if you pirate a DVD Movie which is 100% copyrighted material and illegal to copy

The company who made the computer you used, DVD Writer, the blank disk, the company that wrote the software that removes the encryption or you.

Anyway got to run.

James

The capability to do something and actually doing something are totally different.
EMC Styleworks would have been banned long ago if owning something to convert one style format to another was illegal, however as it only provides the capabilities, not the styles, then there is no problem.
On the other hand, if the purchasers of Styleworks gives copy write styles they have converted to other formats, to someone else, then THEY are breaking the law. (Not the company that makes the software)

Livstyler will play Yamaha styles, but no Yamaha copy write ones are provided, (That’s up to the user to purchase)
Sounds for styles: (Mega voices, Loops etc.)
Analogy:
GM makes a car with 5 speed gearbox, 4 wheels, Air Conditioning, CD Player and glove box, Ford copy this and begin selling it with their own badge, GM can then sue Ford for infringement of copy write.
On the other hand, if Ford makes its own car with its own parts that does exactly the same as the GM car, GM can do nothing about it because nothing of theirs has been used.
The same applies to Mega voices, Loops etc., so that providing the manufacture does not include the manufacturers ones (He designs his own) then there is no infringement.
This is how the Wersi system works, in that Wersi designed their own Mega voices (Called ACC voices) and software, thus allowing Yamaha compatibility without infringement. (They DO NOT supply any Yamaha styles)
Like all reputable companies, Wersi informs the customer of the manufactures trademarks. (In the case of Wersi, this includes Akai, Steinberg (VST) and Yamaha)

Bill

But this is my whole point (note my italics). Dom does NOT come here and say 'you can play Ketron styles with this software, but you CAN'T use Ketron's audio loops, because they are copyrighted', he just off and crows that it WILL play Ketron audio styles. Not even the slightest nod towards letting the user make the decision to use or not use the protected content. For, in truth, who WOULD use Ketron styles without the audio component? They're pretty much useless without it...

I make the guns, I make the bullets, I sell them to you, here's where the guy you hate lives, here's when he gets home, here's where best to shoot him to ensure a kill, here's the number of a good lawyer and a crooked judge....

How FAR down that path can I go before I become culpable in the death?

Hi Bill.

EMC does come with some factory styles, and they have been selling massive volumes of factory styles from every make of keyboard off their website for years.

I actually bought one of their CD's. It was called Universal Style Bank and it contained a copy of every factory style from every major Keyboard released at the time, and they even supplied it to me in KORG i30 format.

There was something like 1500 styles on the CD alone and they have a lot more for sale now.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 02-15-2010).]

Hi Diki.



It's universally known that all factory styles are under a royalty free licence.

So how do you break a royalty free licence by selling a program designed to play back those files which another company paid for and intended for use on their keyboard ?

They cannot restrict their use to their product under a royalty free licence unless they make you sign a licence agreement.

Regards
James

PS. I'm not taking sides, I'm just saying royalty free is what it is.

All dom says is that it can play native audya styles.. Not that those styles are included..

Its like saying a DVD player can play DVD R and RW, nothing more nothing less... Nothing wrong with that.

I only says what the live-arranger developer wrote me:
Hello,

I have made a special Live accompaniement.
It is a very very good tool. Very easy and simple.
And it has a great sounding.
This tool can play ALL Ketron styles from Solton to Audya
(This is the 1st accompaniement worldwide with this function!!!!!!)

What we make here is only the full integration on my system for a better and easy use with our OS interface.
When all is ready ( really soon), you have to buy this special package license, extract on Presets folder, fill/copy your all own ketron styles on the QSTYLES folder and: PLAY.

update:
I have also played Audya styles, you can see on the mixer the groove BAR working too.

As I understand it, styles are copyright free to the PURCHASER. Yamaha have successfully closed down several sites that were distributing their styles before they went stale ( ). If, as you claim, there is NO intellectual property rights to them, what right would they have to do this..?

But my original point was to inform that there are MUCH more stringent rules about the copying of audio files than there is style DATA. Essentially, the law applies fairly equally between say a drum loop from a keyboard and Madonna's latest hit. For a start off, it's VERY easy to prove a waveform is the original. It's as easy as a fingerprint or DNA. No dodging the issue with questions about whether you COULD have come up with the same MIDI pattern yourself. Audio is unique.

And the fines and penalties for doing so, should the original maker of the audio (or their lawyers) decide to come after you (say if you had a hit with something made from it), are pretty draconian. Of course, it is still up to YOU how you use the technology... But if you think the issue is bullsh*t, ask The Verve where the money from their hit 'Bittersweet Symphony' went.

There's probably nothing to stop you putting cracked copies of all the VSTi's on your MS, too. But make no bones, you put stolen Ketron audio styles on this thing, you are doing no different. All that remains is your own conscience. And maybe the terrifying thought that, IF you have any success with it, one day someone could come knocking on YOUR door...

They'll be knocking on your door indeed, and not on Dom's door, and that was the point you where making all the time, so why this sudden change?

But tell me, how can there be a copy right on a Samba or a Beguine, noboddy is owner of those general styles. And if Yamaha makes a songstyle for Michael Jacksons beat it, do they pay royalties to The owner of that Music. I bet they don't as the style is not an exact copy of the musical piece. Just an interpretation.

And has Korg ever payed Steinway for using samples of their Piano's?

Sure there have been lawsuits about using riffs, but i disagree that its steeling when using a few notes with an intense harmony from another song. Just tell me how many Poalka's are there? and noboddy is talking about steeling thins there.

Its a thin line mate... i would not spend to much money on law cases if i was Ketron but spend the money on promoting their own stuff.

Someone that will buy a mediastation would never buy a Audya as those systems are totally eachothers opposite..

But people telling everyone how good their Audya styles sound on Mediastation might make other people that are less technical buy Ketron instead of Yamaha. Its how Micro$oft got a big company.

[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 02-15-2010).]