Hello,

Since the JV series and XV series all suffer from the patches sounding different in patch mode compared to performance mode, I basically use performance mode as a way to draft my composition, and then when it is time to do audio recordings, I switch to patch mode and record each track one at a time. This allows me to retain the sound as it was created in patch mode. At first I was trying to setup a performace with 16 parts, and then attempting to tweak the patches to sound better in performance mode, then just basically realized, "take the hit in sound quality in performance mode, when it comes time to recording audio versions, put them in patch mode and record them 1 track at a time". Does anyone else use this method?

okay, this is my second try at a huge story, first one lost...*&#$%

What I was trying to say is:
the workaround your suggesting is one I use myself. However, there's a catch. A composition without effects is not just the same composition as with effects but a completely different song. Does this sound contradictory to you? Let me explicate what I mean:

if you records trax without FX, you'll have to remix them completely once you've got all the digital data. Why is this? Well the stereo image as well as the volumes are completely garbled after the addition of FX.
for instance: take the compression effect (this also applies to dist, overdrive, enhancer, etc). you form a general idea of the combined sounds of a song on the bald, performance mode version of it right? then you apply the effect on a channel and the compression strengthens the soft notes.
consequently the balance with your other instruments is altered. this goes for the stereo image as well because you placed them in a stereo panorama on the basis of the NOFX (nice band) sound.
Let's presume the power of your composition comes partly from the fact that theres a strong bassline pumping from your right speaker. if you use the enhancer effect on this bassline, there a lot more trebly info coming from the right, completely ruining the entire idea of your composition, but still you need the enhancer to get a more realistic sound (or just a sound you like more) from the bass. now you have to completely reconsider you original idea of the composition. you've made choices earlier in the process, and now you have to make them all over again. This sometimes even results in wrong choice of instrument.
The problem lies in the fact that you cannot alter the wavefiles in just the manner that you please (as you'd do when editing a patch).

Think this is nonsens? tell me why you think so.

the bottom line is:
If you care about sound, and I guess we all do. you want to be able to immediatly get the general idea of the composition and tweak that. because the jv/xp's have limited use of efx you cannot. this means you have to tweak the sound of your song, mix it, record it into wave, listen to it, retweak the sound of your song (sometimes this means going a step back), once you're satisfied with the sound of the individual recorded trax, mix again, decide if the overall sound of the combined trax is what you expected it to be and then finally master it.
Now some of you might not find this a problem and usually I do not mind all that much but if I'm seriously making music and I'm struggling to get a certain sound, this is just an extra barrier on the road to it.

so another question:
does anyone has an alternative workaround for this problem? Any ideas how to overcome these problems.

You can edit the waves of the the performance parts just as you'd edit in patch mode. Excluding fx. At least you can on the XP. Did you know you can hold perform down and press patch. Release at the same time. You will enter a mode where you can edit each tone of each part just as you would in patch mode.
Secondly, the xp units have two direct jacks as well; these are jacks that just produce dry signal. So, you can run a part, or however many parts, through these jacks and use outboard effects units on them. You don't need to do all effects from the synthe using these jacks.
Thirdly, I've never had the problem where adding an effect totally changes the whole composition. Some adjustments sure, but never to the extreme to where I totally have to rethink the composition. I think this comes with practice. The more you do, the more you will be able to imagine in advance how the addition of an effect will sound. Most professional studios I would say don't set about serious mixing while the recording process is going on.
Finally, you can change effects throughout the sequence. True, you can only have a reverb, a chorus, and an effect running, but say you wanta flanger on one instrument through part of a song. If this instrument doesn't play through the whole song, you can choose another effect for another instrument through the section of the song where the flanger isn't needed. If the flanger is needed through the whole song, it might be wise to route that instrument through the direct sends and use an outboard effects unit.

Sounds like we're all in the same boat, granted those that want to use all 16 channels "live" have worse problems than in the studio. I still think doing one track at a time in patch mode, still allows you to be creative with the track since it's full sound is there. Then, when previewing the song you switch to performance mode. Finally, when you are ready to record to audio you do so on a track by track basis. After the audio tracks are done, you can go back and mix everything for the master. Personally I can't wait for the next generation synths from Roland and Yahmaha, they will finally get rid of the fx problems once and for all.

Hi

I am sure your method works just fine. If you always are in patch-mode, you have all possibilities at any time.

But, still I would like to say:
It is fully possible to make complete music with the effects-system on the XP/JV/XV. You just have to create patches that depend less on effects to work. It is not always easy, and it may take time, but the reaults are usually very good in my experience.

I agree that these synths are a bit too "small" on effects, but I also think we are about to get spoiled here. There was a time when synths had no effects AT ALL, and people still made music!

When I make music, I use the internal sequencer. When I make the patches, I try to make them without effects, so that I have the EFX processor free to use where it is most needed. Usually there is not much more than one part that really _needs_ serious processing by the EFX.

In the end it comes down to the fact that all synths have limitations, and we have to try and figure out how to use them as good as we can.

Stig