Hi all,

I have a few excellent short guitar wave files that I want to convert to midi properly. I want to try to create multipads for the Yamaha keyboards similar to the Audya's guitar audio loops.

Can anyone help me to convert these wave files to midi?

Tried the shareware wave to midi converters and the results not good at all.

Thank you in advance,
Henni

Good Luck!!!! Thats been the "Holy Grail" of midi song programmers for years and years...

PLENTY of software that can do single notes, really well. When it comes to chords...they are terrible.

Only thing I've seen that can adjust polyphonic material like guitar parts is Celemony's Melodyne Editor and above which has a MIDI output. How well this works, I don't know, but on audio, this thing is close to miraculous (if the audio is clear enough), and it is capable of generating a MIDI file with notes and velocities correct, if the manual is to be believed.
http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=715&L=1.%253FL%253D1.%253FL%253D1.%253FL%253D1

An utterly groundbreaking product (but not cheap!)

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your replies. Now my next question:

Does anyone have good acoustic, distortion and base guitar midifile samples that I can maybe use for this purpose (create multipads for the Yamaha arrangers that allows something similar to the Audya's live guitar loops to be played along with midi styles)

Thank you so much,
Henni

You realize that many of the guitar patterns already IN the Yamaha arrangers were made from MIDI guitar players, playing into a sequencer?

To be honest, if you are dissatisfied with the patterns that are already in it, deriving MIDI patterns from audio guitar loops is not likely to sound any better, actually, probably worse, because Yamaha have got a LOT of performance nuances added to those patterns via their Mega Voice information (rakes, chokes, pick noises, scrapes, etc.)...

You are STILL using the same guitar sounds that Yamaha use for their styles.

Basically, you want audio loop quality guitars in a style, your only option is an Audya or MS or Wersi, that can actually DO audio files. Yamaha have got about as close as can be got, with their technology and voices. Deriving MIDI information from audio loops isn't really going to make them any better...

OTOH, if you have a Tyros, you could try using a slicer program to slice the audio loops you have, and create a MIDI file to play back the loops (if you want to go at any other tempo than the loop already is), but you'll not get chord transposition, etc.. Might work with an SMF if you play in the key of the loops or use a transposer software to shift them.

But, essentially what you want to do is simply not going to be better than what you already have, I'm afraid.

Diki,

I used Michael's Padmaker to create multipads of all the guitar tracks of the Yamaha's Pop&Rock and Ballad styles.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11452.0;attach=6179
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11452.0;attach=6180

I am really disappointed in the end results - it does not even come close to the Audya's wave patterns. (Please note, I am a big Yamaha fan and the Yamaha styles are truly magnificent - they are just not suitable material for the multipads that I would like to create)

Last night I went through EVERY single multipad I have (and I have them ALL) and found nothing impressive.

I have heard good guitar midi recordings, so I know it is possible with midi. Are the Yamaha's limited to processing power, Polyphony or what?

I really think if not, that better quality guitar examples can be had for these arrangers. But I am certainly no expert on these things and hence my original question.

Now please, I'm looking for good rock guitar riff midis - Surely some of you must know of some.

Keep well,
Henni

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 03-15-2010).]

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 03-15-2010).]

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 03-15-2010).]

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 03-15-2010).]

Why not look at hiring a Midi Guitar (Roland used to make them) and then get one of your mates to come over and record in several phrases for you.

OR buy a s/h midi guitar and learn a few basic chord patterns (ie barre form 1 and 2) and do them yourself

I reckon that would be far FAR easier and quicker than mucking around with any software, Melodyne included, which is not really all that terrific with multiple chord notes anyway.

Dennis

I've heard what I thought was some pretty decent guitar playing in modern Yamaha styles. To be honest, I am prepared to admit that they are, short of actual audio loops, about the best that the state of the art can get them without using VSTi's.

Which Yamaha are you using?

The problem with rock guitar MIDI's is that it is ALL about the amp simulator. It's the way that chords make the amp break up, single lines sing out, power chords (no thirds) get crunchy. And about the Mega Voice information, rakes, scrapes, pick noise, etc., etc.. And lastly, and most difficultly, it is about the way that chords get played on a guitar. MIDI arrangers tend to simply transpose guitar parts, a part that you really liked from a MIDI file will NOT work well when transposed to all keys, let alone all chords. Guitars are very non-linear things. A G chord is NOTHING like a C chord. Different shape, different chord. Until you get into barré chords, no two chords get played the same way, and most guitar stuff (or at least, a whole lot of it!) is played down at the nut end of the guitar, where everything is different.

Yamaha's T3 and S910 have new NTT's to help with making their guitar parts more natural when transposed. Do you have one of these, yet?

I'm afraid what you want to do simply is beyond much of today's technology, at least if you have already auditioned Yamaha's current styles and find them lacking. Only other thing I can suggest is to try Korg's PA800/PA2Xpro, which has a dedicated Guitar Mode in it that makes a pretty good job of picking the correct voicing for different key, same type chords...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I think you are asking a bit much from today's arrangers, even as good as I think they are...

Hi Diki & Dennis,

Maybe I would like longer guitar riffs with more variation in each loop - this the current styles simply cannot give.

Look, I'm not sure if what I want is possible, but I won't know until I try to convert a good rock guitar riff midi sequence into a multipad.

Now please, please, please, can anyone help me with such a midi file, even if from a complete song, maybe I can extract some parts to experiment with.

Please send to hennie dot vanrooyen at exxaro dot com.

Keep well,
Henni

You never DID mention what arranger you are using...

You have mail

Hi Diki,

I've had a Yamaha PSR-3000 now for more than 5 years and I'm still completely in love with it! I've modified all the newer Yamaha arranger styles to work on my PSR-3000.

But, if I could I would upgrade to the Audya. Until then, I'll keep on improving the material available for the 3K.

Keep well,
Henni

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 03-16-2010).]

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 03-16-2010).]

I think you had better go out and have a listen to an S910, and even a T3 if you can find (or afford) one. The guitar parts are STREETS ahead of the old 3k. There are new transpose tables that address what I said about guitar voicings changing depending on key, and some much better amp simulators and rock guitar parts...

That's a what, six or seven year old design you got there, isn't it? Things move pretty quick in music technology...

For its' day, the 3k was state of the (MOTL) art. But you REALLY need to listen to how things have got better. It isn't just the styles. It's the sounds they use, and the OS that plays them...

Ask anyone here. Ask them if they think the guitar parts are better on an S910 than a 3k...

Diki,

Now I know you will not believe this. I played the new T3 for awhile and it's own styles did not sound all that much better that it's converted styles on my 3K. I've read more than one post where 3K owners state that the S910 does not sound any better than their 3K using the modified styles.

Yes, I would like the guitar chord and MP3 player/recorder functions, but over and above that the added cost would not be justified.

Truly, I speak from others also who feel the same way when I say this. I'm sure some of them will chime in on this. The PSR-3000 is a great arranger that truly was ahead of it's time.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=11115.0

Regards,
Henni

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 03-16-2010).]

I guess bottom line is, have you ever heard an arranger with better guitar style parts than the T3/S910?

Because, if you haven't, those are some incredibly talented programmers and arrangers doing that programming. And I hate to say it, but if THEY can't make guitar styles up to your standards, it is quite possible that NO-ONE can, given the sounds and the technology you have. In truth, there's a REASON the Audya went to audio loops for guitar parts. Because it simply is not possible to do it as well in MIDI. If it could, do you think they would have gone with such an expensive solution?

The reason that SMF's occasionally (very occasionally, IMO!) get a better guitar sound is that, the part is the part... It isn't expected to play any chord, any voicing. It simply plays what it IS. Put the same file in an arranger as a style part, and you will quickly see how the NTT messes the whole part up, how different chords get messed up an un-guitaristic. It's a non-linear instrument, with weird rules, being played by a robot with the wrong rules, into sounds with a fraction of the expression and nuance a real guitar gets.

To be honest, I am astonished at how WELL the Yamaha's get it, considering all that. But if that isn't good enough for you, Henni, well, best of luck with your quest... You ever succeed, let us know..!

Hi Diki,

Never stated that the current Yamaha styles are not good enough for me. I LOVE my Yamaha and the styles.

At first nobody believed that the newer Yamaha styles could be made to play on the older models like mine (same situation as this topic). Then along came Jorgen and a few other die hards and now we have absolute beautiful styles for our older models. And they sound good too.

So, I did not say that these multipads CAN be done the way I want it - but I'm going to try and if it works, it will once again add a new dimension to our older keyboards.

When I was younger, I upgraded with every new model, but when one gets older, it seems to me that life just gets in the way and it is not so easy to do anymore.

I do programming for a living, but nothing to do with midis or music. So I'm willing to give it a try. I am not even close to the level of the professional Yamaha programmers, but just maybe my need is different to theirs. And if it cannot be done, there is nothing to loose. I'll still love my little Yamaha just the same.

Just maybe some talented programmers see the gap and start to produce some beautiful guitar multipads. Who knows, maybe I just started something here.

Cheers,
Henni

No-one agrees with you more than I about staying and learning thoroughly older keyboards, Henni. Had my G1000 for over ten years before I moved to the G70, had that five years and counting, now, and fully expect at least another five out of it, if not more!

But I try to stay realistic about my expectations of what can and can't be done with the technology. My only intent with my comments previously were, if you are dissatisfied with Yamaha's best, current GUITAR parts (regardless of how you feel about the overall arranger), which from your quest to find better ones (as good as the Audya's!) one can only infer, I am afraid you have a VERY uphill battle.

I tend to believe that I seldom come across user styles that BETTER the best ROM styles, simply because they use the best, most talented players and programmers they can. If THEY can't get Yamaha guitars as good as Ketron audio ones, you may be tilting at windmills. Possibly, with luck, you might be able to get as good as they have managed, but significantly better is a very tall order...

But, should you succeed, give Yamaha a call. They might be interested in using you for their NEXT batch of style programming if you can get a PSR3000 to sound as good as an Audya, at least in the guitar section..!

Diki, you are funny! :-)

Henni