A BIG +1 from me.

Now THAT opinion is something you and I agree on Chas.

Dennis

Most members here would be better off focusing on learn ing the other 90% capability of their existing arranger rather than drool over the 'potential ' of the MS. And surprsingly after all this time we are still talking about potential. No one to my knowedge has delivered a demo of this instrument to the sound quality,live playability of any of the top 3 arrangers. That says more than the huncreds of thousands of words that have been said about the MS.

BTW, I think the MS/Groove could/will have some success, maybe a lot of success, but not as an arranger. Why? Because with an arranger, IT'S THE CONTENT, STUPID. A gifted entrepreneur with the help of his geek buddy can whip up a pretty snazzy machine in his basement in a few weekends (anyone see the Brit with the $100 camera, helium balloon, and the resultant NASA-quality pics of Earth from outer space) . CONTENT, on the other hand, requires the kind of talented resources and DEEP pockets that are unavailable to such entrepreneurs unless his geek buddy happens to be Bill Gates . Diki and others have been saying this all along and it remains true AS APPLIES TO THE ARRANGER MARKET. Dom has already recognized this, so it is only those people that keep insisting on it being the ultimate ARRANGER that will continue to find it wanting. If you're only interested in the MS as an arranger, move on. Others fill that role much better (and cheaper). Those who continue to want to bring a tank to a fistfight will continue to be frustrated and disappointed. JMO.

chas

+1 again

Perhaps our views are not as disparate as I first thought Chas

Dennis

Yes that's exactly what I meant BUT it's only in my case, don't know if it'll be the same for others.
From the active members in this forum I may be the exception, not the rule. I'll tell you my profile: I'm 41 years old (not that old) and I'm a hobbist organ player that ended up playing arrangers because I couldn't buy/afford a modern organ. I don't know about computer programming, just sitting in front of my PC and using Windows, the Web explorer and some simple programs.I like to sit and play my instruments OOTB in the old fashion freely and live.

Why did I buy a MS? I could not refuse to buy an unique instrument usually unavailable in my country at less than half the price of a middle range arranger here (i.e.Psr s900). It was an used MS with older hardware that I still can upgrade.

Do I regret? Not at all, because I also needed the excellent Fatar keys to make my own instrument, I have everything set at the touch of my fingers and I can amuse myself with new sounds when I get bored.

Do I think it is for everyone? No, the target of this product should be younger people who like technology and computers, programers, sound engineers not the average home arranger player.

Will it succed? This is the future, you like it or not. All advanced keyboards will have the capabilities of an open keyboard. The young man of today will be the old man of tomorrow.

But it is true, as players, we should spend more time learning playing skills not reading the Owners Manual.

It hasn’t been marketed as an arranger for some time, but is now marketed as a workstation with the option to add the arranger features if the user requires them.

Bill

But it is still being heavily touted by its' proponents on a dedicated ARRANGER site, its' manufacturer still posts extensively here, despite already admitting that arranger development has ceased (before even 'bass inversion' abilities have been added), so, for all the 'open' nature of the MS, let's face it, the arranger section is 'closed', at least as far as continuing (and badly needed) development.

Arranger development has not ceased... Qranger is still being developed further, espescially with people like tastenpoint creating a full set of top styles for the mediastation.

Only the marketing strategy has changed, as the MEdiastation currently is the only workstation that can rival the sound of Oasys and Openlabs. SO its being presented as a TOTl workstation that can do it all, even being used as an arranger if you'd want to do this.

As i stated many times before, being inovative will save the arranger market for demise, and exactly that is what Lionstracs does. Soon young people all over the world might finally learn how much an arranger can do for them when they quickly want to play soemthing new on their topline workstation.

Dom is creating the arranger/workstation what ever you may call it, of the future. and all current versions of arranger keyboards closed versions as we know it, will be targeted at the entry level keyboardists.

I'd just stick to my G70 as that is the last old fashioned ToTl arranger Roland has ever made. The Instruments grow further from ToTl arranger to ToTl Keyboard workstations with arranger capabillities and Roland has decided not to be part of that buiseness yet.

I dare bet my money that Korg will soon jump ontoo this bandwagon as they allready have much experience with open systems from their Oasys and they must realise that this is the future..

Ketron has chosen to sticj to the old fashioned closed keyboards but added an innovative feature. No idea what they will come up with in 5 years.

Then all there is left is Yamaha and they might be the big loosers if they don't get some inovative stuff out very fast.. And be relegated to the Casio of the 21st century with only a strong market for the entry level keyboars, which is where they make most of their money.

Just accept it, the fact that the youth is not liking the old fashioned closed arrangers is reason enough to abandon this road in the near future. The Youth has the future and the will to spend cash on their bobbies.

So if the open workstation/arranger concept caters to the youth, then this is where the future of arrangers has a chance to survive.

The arranger of the future will be different from what you call anarranger Diki, it will be more like a Mix of Karma , ABleton live and Qranger but it will be an arranger... as the accompany will be based on your chords.. wherever you play them.


But then there is nothing wrong with a G70 Diki, the sound quallity is far beyound what you ever hneeded to make a great appearance on stage for your publicum, as long as you don't want to play in modern clubs i am sure you will do just fine, so its quite okay to stick to your G70.. Or PA2X, or Audya(when its done) they all have 76 keys, they have a professional level sound and great styles.

But in 10 years, the totl instruments will all be open based... and the oldfshioned closed keyboards will be viewed uppon the same way as we now look back to the first organs with auto accomp... as being old fashioned..

But then a B3 is also oldfashioned, but still top of the bill... but noboddy takes it out for gigging anymore.

Bachus.very interesting insight I tend to agree with you to a point about open workstations being the future of closed arranger keyboards. I personally embrace & am excited to see the development of whet is to be in the new wave of design.
The Mediastation is a fine example of what is to be in the future allowing musicians more creativity being young or old to create music in anyway they choose. Educating the user is of utmost importance also. Lets face it no matter how good these instruments sound you still have to operate them.....and more importantly you have to KNOW HOW to play to a certain standard that will pair well with the technology offered otherwise whats the sense, the unit cannot do that for you. I'm happy to be around to keep my mind open to what is ahead. Domenic is on the right track for sure imo.

I think the minute tastenpoint come here and read what a self-entitled bunch of thieves this instrument tends to appeal to, they are going to think twice about developing any styles for people that THINK that styles have no copyright, no protection, and should all be free as the air...

You see, you can't have it BOTH ways...