I've lost all respect for that company. They contacted me and demanded I removed their name from the meta tags I had on YouTube. As you know you use meta tags so people looking for information on say... open platform keyboards can find both Lionstracs and Open Labs products as they are the only two companies in the world making them. That's how search engines work.

Nope.... they were not happy about that one bit and I got the Violation of Trademark bull from them and was forced into editing my meta tags.

What a joke. They just used that line to force me to edit the tags so people wouldn't see Lionstracs keyboards when searching YouTube for information.

So.... I have zero respect for them any more. The entire point of YouTube is so people like me and other end users can communicate with other and share information. A company like them doesn't even deserve to be allowed to use YouTube as all they are doing here is shaping the results of the search engine to suite their needs and the promotion of their products, while also preventing the freedom of information.

James.

Thats serious stuff James...

I agree with you that companies like this can not be trusted, when they have that kind of attitude i highly doubt their service too.

As long as Open labs does not support Karma they are nothing more then a combination of a masterkeyboard, some controllers and a PC. Even tough Riff looks like a very strong tool, its nothing else but a VST host.

Liontracs tough has a clear and clean interface of themselves with atleast the same possibilities as Open labs and even more because of Q-ranger and the other arranger options.

when i look on youtube for "open platform keyboard" there still is a lot of your mediastation video's shown.

Link

We should keep it that way.

Yep... that's because I modified my tags so I could still reach the people, but also not to mention Open Lab$ in the process.

Regards
James

I can not believe..
Violation of Trademark of what?

Anyway..I will mot put more fire on this point.
For me is more interesting how they develope hardware and how they assembly the all PC parts.

After saw this picture: http://darinmckinney.com/wordpress/images/mikoopen5big.jpg
I was shocked..
Now I understand why they have so BIG case, but this is not the big issue that I see.
The first board that I always like looking is how is made the audio card/board.
they use the standard Firebox on front and then they connect on the rear connector with so LONG analog audio cables??
Long Analog audio cables around one PC system are like one radio Antenna, + the all VGA cables around the Powersuplly...OMG..i can not believe...

Now also I understand why they have this hardware issue: http://forum.openlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=2198
This problem is normally when you power the audio card from the standard PC ATX power supply, is a issue that the all manufactures know.
On Mediastation/groove products, we hadthe same problems at beginn of the hardware project, BUT we have resolved with our own special power card: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/ms-atx-switching-p-218.html
Thsi will separate totally the noise from the ATX power supply.
If you look at my Mixerboard V5: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/images/2008/mixer5web.jpg
you can see that the all AD/DA AKM converter are soldered about close at the al XRL connector, with OUT any analog cables, for that also we get the 126dB dynamic range.

At the end..look how is made this PC keyboard and then look how is made the groove: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoIbTz1-1RI
big difference...

No comments about the software, because in some month will be available the full windows OS installer disk for the all groove and Mediastation too.
In this way then the user can choose wich OS booting: Linux or windows.
One keyboard...two OS distribution.
( now stop...I dont want fight for new violation trademark... )

WOW, is that really going to happen? That is great news Dom, being able to boot into windows...yahoo!!

Can Windows 7 be used as the base OS?

The big advantages I see with windows, is a user can then use some disk imaging software (Acronis in my case) and create images for backups...Far easier than reloading saved libraries....Not too mention being able to use VST's that require USB dongle protection....

Big thumbs up from me.

Dennis

as can be seen Open Labs outside looks good but inside looks disaster.

Only one thing they have figured out is how the case can be opened. I mean without wooden bracket used by Domenico to open MS/Groove

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 05-02-2010).]

He never said that the Lionstracs interface and stuff like Q-ranger and Linux sampler will work under WIndows...

He only said you can boot te mediastation under windows... but not what functionallity you can use...

Makes me wonder if there even is drivers to utilize all the Mediastations hardware under windows.

Bachus you maybe need to read it a little better....

"the full windows OS installer disk for the all groove and Mediastation too.
In this way then the user can choose wich OS booting: Linux or windows."

The full OS Installer disk is the key. If you had a MS you would understand what OS installer disk means. usually it is the ISO for end users to burn and instal disk with the (currently) Linux Kubuntu distro, WITH all the media Station drivers.

Thats how I understood his comment. Maybe Dom can clarify a little further.

it is good that you are thinking about windows.but frankly Winodws will never achieve what they have achieved with new Kubuntu LTS 10.04.
http://www.kubuntu.org/

Linux is well known more stable then windows,
and has many more features.

Hmmm.... I know what your saying but Windows 7 is a different ballgame altogether.

It's rock solid and super fast. Even if it wasn't it would still be better than Linux trying to run Windows software through Wine.

Lionstracs own custom software offers FAR FAR more real-time control and integration than anything Open lab$ have, and if Lionstracs goes Win7 they will destroy Open Lab$ in every department the keyboard has to offer.

Have to say that I'm getting some seriously good vibes from Lionstracs lately. The OS development is really good, and with talks of a Windows version.... OH MAN..... this will be amazing.

Regards
James

Windows will always be welcome. especially for people who have never used linux. maby Live-Arranger will be main arranger on windows O.S version !!!!!!!!!!

waiting for more information on this given by domenico!


MS/Groove applications are programmed with QT. QT also supports Windows, so it's possible i think.
http://qt.nokia.com/


maby you can also use QT LGPL version James. as we can see you know C++ programming language or not?


[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 05-02-2010).]

I think it was fantastic forward thinking of Lionstracs to use this, but for me the €2 995 price tag is far too much money. I'd rather take my family on a holiday to Italy for two weeks instead and stay in a great hotel.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 05-02-2010).]

QT LGPL version is for free download only you most share your source code. it is for open source creating software, else i had not proposed. lol

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 05-02-2010).]

Wow....really...!!!
I'll check it out then.

Cheers
James

You guys make it sound so simple..

There are certain things like the Multi asio thing that will not work under Windows.

I once did a project of porting a server from SUN Solaris to Red hat Linux, and its not only just a matter of compiling the stuff on a windows compiler. All the scripting and such needs to be redone.

Porting such a huge project from Linux to windows will take Lionstracs at least a year to get a stable OS.

Only programming the drivers for windows will take a single programmer months.

hey...slow slow...
I Never say that I will porting my all LIONSTRACS OS to windows!
This I think will be never happen becase need years of work!

The guy that make this Windows OS installer work is Norbert.
I Think all will be under Windows 7 OS.

The idea is to develope a multiple zone remapper of the all Groove keys/leds/sliders/encoders, some like Riff, but more intelligent and splittable.

After installed the basic windows 7 OS, the special installer will install the all missing drivers of my hardware and the remapper tool. In this way we have some like a clone Openlab$ system.

Then will also offered the new Live Arranger FULL native integrated on Groove/MS system hardware.

The use then can choose under booting partition wich software system to use for the gig.
Under this way we can make happy more people, but I'm still convinced that the LIONSTRACS OS linux software will be more complete in features than what the Windows 7 system can offer.( just read again what James told before)
Open system/platform mean this too, to give the possibility to the user to chooce what they want.

Who know IF someday we can not offer the same under Hakintosh OSX-AMD leopard too?
all is possible, just look on youtube: osx leopard on AMD

Thanks for the clear-up Dom...

What you ARE saying you (Norbert) may be able to do does sound good though

Also I want to compliment you and Lionstracs on such a neat and well organised hardware and cable layout. Bravo!

I needed to open my MS to install the new graphics card, and the inside was so neat and tidy. All the cabling done nicely.

The video card install went very smoothly, and another compliment on the clear instructions and the pics, made it a doddle(easy) to install

dennis

As i said it would but i am not going to tell everyone, told you so, i will not..

Both setups have advantages and disadvantages, while under windows all vst's work, some very cool things of Mediastation are bound to run only under Linux...


I personaly would not devide my attantion between Linux and Windows and stick to Linux and try to find a way to overcome the compatibillity isues.


But then, who am i to advise you on a topic like this.

So I was right, it's just a Live-Arranger software with Integration on lionstracs hardware on windows. it is good idea for some people.

they can still full install Kubuntu OS for use everything make MS/Groove unique.


linux, every day gets new users. even at school they should start with linux education.Becouse Linux is the only O.S which has a lot to offer to its end users. and it's free.

it is unfortunate that people still hang on windows. on my laptop i have both installed,linux and windows.

Kubuntu 10.04 LTS runs incredibly good and is stable.

Well that's a pity.
Being able to boot to Windows will be excellent, but the biggest appeal of a Lionstracs keyboard over something like Open Lab$ is the custom Lionstracs Software.

I love the fact that it's all so seamless.

Oh well... I'm not going to complain, we are already spoiled rotten.

Regards
James

But you just did!

We were going on Doms statement, which he later clarified to say it may be happening but not too soon, so there was no need at all for this comment....

Just as WE would not have made it had the answer been different.

And in any case Doms reply indicates there may be development to boot into Windows with the OS with mapping to several buttons and tabs (even if not by Lionstracs) so your comment is made redundant even further.

LOL... 'it may be happening, but not too soon'

Pretty much the MS's entire history in a nutshell

Diki, that is a most unfair comment. I think you will find that the OS updates (major) from Lionstracs exceed anything the MAJORS (Korg Roland Yamaha) provide.

The thing I LOVE about the Media Station and Lionstracs is that Dom is kind enough and is passionate enough to share his ideas with us. How many of the MAJORS CEO's actually talk with their owners on a day to day basis?

Unlike Korg Yamaha Roland, who keep all their plans to themselves, hoping to shill buyers, by making them by hardware that is soon to superseded.

Look at the upgrades (major) to the majors and the time spacing between upgrades.

I think you will find the Media Station OS is probably in front as far as updates go

Nearly 3 years for Korg, Yamaha just make you buy a brand new piece of hardware for very VERY little upgrade, and Roland have lost the plot entirely.

No, I think you should really reconsider your statement there.

Dennis



[This message has been edited by miden (edited 05-03-2010).]

Ummmmm, never thought I'd live to see the day when someone would mistake Diki for Donny......or visa versa .

chas (or maybe I'm Fran)

ROTFL....oops!!!! sorry Donny

Thought I'd better capture it in case Dennis decided to edit it . Then MY post would make no sense. Probably doesn't anyway .

chas

Yeah sorry Chas, I did edit it to make it correct.

Should have left it. But thanks for saving it.


Dennis

PS: perhaps thats the closest they have ever been

Sorry, Dennis, but I stand by it. After reading about this thing for what, six years or so (Nov '03 is the first search result for 'Lionstracs'), and it STILL is a 'work in progress' that can't match a closed arranger for ease of use and sheer practicality, despite that first post being titled (by Dom himself) 'The future of arrangers'...

Well, the future has yet to arrive.

When it does (IF it does) I will be first in line to get one. But I have a feeling that it will have the words Yamaha or Korg or maybe even Roland on the panel. Somehow, ONLY those guys have a clue what arranger players in the vast majority actually want. I have always said I would LOVE an open arranger if I didn't lose what was good about a closed arranger at the same time. Seems utterly obvious Dom is incapable or unwilling to go that route, so I wait and wait for the REAL 'future' to arrive...

I think, in fairness, Dennis, after your last go-round with the MS, that perhaps it is YOU that needs to 'wait', and weigh in on the subject once you actually HAVE got the thing to perform the way you want it? Do you really want egg on your face a second time? Your 180º on the MS the first time showed that there is a HUGE difference between theory and practice. As is obvious from the almost complete lack of anything decent posted in style format by those that HAVE had the MS for years, this is obviously anything BUT easy.

Let's just wait until you have figured out whether it does what you need on this second time around before you leap into the void again? If the future arrived the way the optimists had predicted, I would be dictating this into thin air as I fly through the air in my sky-car, not typing it at home while oil approaches my beaches because we are still driving cars around that run on petrochemicals...

I did not have egg on my face the first time at all Diki.
At the end I always knew it was the best keyboard for me, but not being as rich as some, I did not have the luxury of just leaning it against the wall to await improvements.

I can only afford to ahve one kb at a time.

I had to sell it to buy back into keyboards that worked all the time. And I went through a few I can tell you, but NONE matched the total package that the Media Station was.

When I read and saw (thanks James and Dom) what the new OS was about, I decided there and then to try and buy back my MS.


The ONLY gripe was the unreliability I found with the old OS. And this is well documented by me, so please do not try to put your usual skewed slant on anything here.

I had NO issues at all with any of the functions, VST's, playing standard mp3 backing tracks, song storage, nothing.

It was JUST the reliability. Apart from that the MS was excellent!

Reliability has been sorted with the new OS I believe. The arranger part is of small consequence to me.

So don't try to paint false pictures to justify your silly arguments.