There is a brief mention in this thread here http://www.yamahapkowner.com/forum/index.php?topic=26742.msg262570;topicseen#msg262570 posted at 07.40pm today.

Does anybody else have any more details?

Bill

Not details but not next year...more likely this year...as usual.

Lets assume for a moment that there is a Pa3X on the way, then those who do know about it won't be able to comment because of their NDA.

So either way your not really going to get the answer your looking for until KORG say so.

Regards
James

So why did we know about the T4 ahead of time then...same game...

I don't think a PA3XPRO is in the near horizon???
Lee S.

What is just SO unsatisfactory about what you are currently playing that the mere IDEA that a future product is on the (perhaps distant) horizon is enough to make you froth at the mouth like this..?

Who CARES what Korg, Yamaha, Roland, anybody is going to make next year, year after, whatever..? I GUARANTEE you haven't touched 60% of the capabilities of what you currently have.

You know what you REALLY want..? New styles. High quality styles. That's about IT. If new styles of the quality of the ROM ones were being offered for sale, you wouldn't really honestly give a damn about NEXT year's model! But while piracy, and rampant 'swapping' of styles goes on, and style makers can't make a living producing good ones, you HAVE to get a new arranger, JUST to get some new styles!

And that is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard...

Quit giving away styles you have bought... Every single style that is offered for sale is also, somewhere, being offered for free by somebody that bought it. And the only thing doing that guarantees is, there is less and less chance that whoever made that great style you bought is ever going to make another one!

We are shooting ourselves in the foot, trading styles around. There was a MUCH greater choice of third party great styles and manufacturer after-market styles back before the internet made giving these away to our friends SO easy. Now we are reduced to longing for distant new models (at thousands of dollars cost to us) because decent style production has ground to an almost complete stop.

Either we change what we do, or we are forced to buy a new arranger to get new styles, or wait a few months for the new styles in a new arranger to be backwards translated (and the manufacturers try as hard as they possibly can to make sure that new features are incorporated into those new styles so they DON'T translate well!), and they are STILL a pitiful handful, as most arrangers ROM styles are predominantly translations from earlier arranger models.

How many brand new styles (with absolutely NO common Parts with existing styles) come with most arrangers? Precious few, sadly.

Give me an unending supply of new styles, I can make an older arranger last for YEARS past where most would want to upgrade. And I am pretty sure most of you could, too...

Can only speak for myself...I have never give away styles that I haven't done myself. With Korg...there really isn't that goin all that much...and the ones that are out there are usually ones from folks on the forums that they did themselves. I know lots of that goes on with Yamaha.

Actually with the PA2 you can create styles from MIDI's as the tools are there and it works. Also, with drums, you can do the slicing so tempo can change without pitch changing.

Actually new styles...while nice are only 1 reason I would buy a new Kbd. Here's my list:
1) More, faster memory for user sound waves, styles, pgms etc Flash so don't have to wait for loading samples.
2) New superb sounds (DNC, SA2 etc)
3) Better tools onboard for sampling, and making new sounds
4) In the case of Korg...1 issue fixed..combining user files (multiple sets) is something we need.
5) Better build could be a +
6) Bigger screen would be great...10 inch is what I would like to see
7) More fills on the Korg would be nice
8) One can HOPE...that on a new instrument they fix the freeking sounds that have problems!

Lee S.

Totally agree.

Bring back copy protection for styles in my view. I don't really know how, maybe the buyer needs to send some sort of machine code to the style seller prior to purchase, so that they ONLY play on that particular machine.

Give the creators protection (ergo a solid income) and you will get lots. And the need for new hardware would evaporate. Although THAT may not play into the hands of some marketing departments at hardware manufacturers.

Dennis,
I agree too....it takes tons of time and a lot of musical talent to create great styles...they should be protected.
Lee S.

Yes copy protection for styles would be good for the style makers but not necessarily good for the manufacturer.

If style makers made fresh new copy protected styles for a certain arranger, how could a manufacture justify making a new arranger every 2-3 years with incremental upgrades. The new hardware board is what manufacturers use to make their profit because they could charge and arm and a leg.

Trust me if manufacturers thought trading of styles was hurting their business they would have found a way to stop it. But the manufacturers probably have realized that it may be in their best interest to allow trading of styles because a translated style would not sound as good as a style originally made for a specific arranger. And persons would be willing to buy a new arranger even if it is just for the update styles (I.E Yamaha users).

Thats true the money is in the hardware...

I think the total package of a T4's hardware is not even $500 costs to Yamaha. Korg obviously using better parts then Yamaha might be a bit more expensive but still under $1000.

I believe Korg will keep the same basic hardware, but add newer technology like Karma or whatever new stuff they've been working on (if they have anything new in development).

Anyone have any idea what else they could put on that is actually new?

Personally, I believe Korg will revamp/renew/refresh their best seller, the PA-800, before they introduce a new PA*Xpro.

Ian

I don't think trading "internal" styles is a bad thing at all, if anything, if the styles are awesome enough that could possibly get the user thinking of getting the keyboard where they came from or maybe changing to that series instead. It also demonstrates where the keyboards strengths lie, eg, Korg have the best Unplugged styles & Ketron clearly have the best arranged Latin styles so I know for Latin I could always turn to Ketron (even though I have owned a Ketron before anyway), but even if I didn't I've heard enough converted Ketron styles to tell me what to expect from them.

[This message has been edited by DannyUK (edited 09-14-2010).]

Its kinda late to worry about making styles proprietary to one KB that's all in the past there are thousands floating around not to mention all teh aftermarket and custom made ones which by the way is a slightly used feature in most arrangers that everyone should be learning how to do anyway! After all you paid for these features but hardly use them right?....
new styles .....Old styles,... who cares will they make you play better? btw this sausage and egg sandwich on a hard roll is delicious..

They won't make you PLAY better... but they'll sure make you SOUND better, or at least not as repetitive, and that might help you fight your own staleness.

I mean, let's face it. If new styles were widely available, and at least as good as your current ROM styles (they don't HAVE to be as good as the next generation model - as good as your CURRENT ROM styles is pretty damn good), most of the 'old model fatigue' would disappear. And sounding fresh is probably the main reason any of the 'every new model' upgraders buy each new model. IMO, the style itself, FAR more than any new lead sound or minor OS improvement, is the majority contributing factor to a sense of improvement when we hear these new models.

Be honest, if ONLY new lead sounds and a few OS changes came out on a new model, who would buy it? But a slew of new, well produced styles, and we are like kids in a candy store!

BTW, before this issues gets muddied by talking about translations and user styles, let's at least acknowledge that they, on the whole suck compared to the best ROM styles.

The reason we need protected style formats is so that the manufacturers THEMSELVES, as well as talented commercial third party style houses can return to making styles of the quality you get in the ROM pack. So this is not only going to benefit third parties, but the manufacturers that some seem to assume this is NOT in their best interest. To be honest, I would be unsurprised to see a manufacturer actually making MORE profit by selling three YEARS (at least) of monthly ROM quality styles securely to users of their arrangers, than the modest profit (one time) from the sale of a new arranger (and someone else buys the used older arranger, so no sale at ALL to that guy!)

Remember when styles came on a ROM card you put in your arranger? They sold a BOATLOAD of those (when they were any good!). Yet managed, somehow, to stay in business. Didn't stop people from buying the new model...

But, it is becoming all too apparent, without protected style delivery, our choices have all but completely dried up for QUALITY styles (not naff translations or even naff-er user styles). This needs addressing, in the worst way...

For good or bad Diki, Yamaha arranger players are attracted to Yamaha because of the many available translations and user styles for Yamaha and they feel those styles are sufficient for their needs.

And, as much as we like to think styles drive persons to get a new arranger, let us not discount the fact that persons buy a new arranger just to have something new.
Also, some persons buy a new keyboard for a combination of things. For example, some one who has the T3 of XS would upgrade to the T4 or XF for the styles yes but also for the improved sounds, additional hardware features (flash memory XLR mic input) and some OS features that they find they would like.

Korg has announced a PA800 Elite, which is a PA800 with an 80 gig hard drive and a MP3 dual player built in, around a $400 savings if added separately.

This usually means they are going to try to get a little more time out of the current product before bringing in something new.

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www.AudioworksCT.com

Sorry, genesys, but I am POSITIVE that, if high quality styles were still being offered for sale (like they used to be), Yamaha users (and everybody else, too) wouldn't be all that interested in naff translations and wanky user styles! Those are only sufficient for their needs because they have NO alternative...

And, I guarantee this, too... a new arranger with NO new ROM styles, but better OS and a few more lead sounds (remember, at best you rarely get more than 10% new sounds in a new arranger) will die a quick death. But a new arranger with the sounds and OS of the previous model, but secure style delivery and a promise to offer thirty or even many more new styles of the same high quality as the ROM styles EVERY MONTH for sale will dominate the market...

Exactly what they did with the PA1XPro, about 6 months prior to the release of the PA2XPro.

This could be even more "evidence" of something in the wind from Korg...Not that I am interested I already have my set, and I ma happy with that

It seems to me that if Ketron products are hitting the US market just now, and the Tyros 4 is on it's way, then if Korg had a PX3A Pro almost ready they would put out some kind of advertising to snare those who are ready to buy. I know I, myself, would consider waiting a bit to see what they come out with if they'd only come up with even a hint.

I called Korg last week and they advised me the PX2A is selling like hot cakes, and that they have no plans on retiring the board, but that also they have no plans for replacing it. Then again, what does a Korg rep know...they just work there!

Lucky

Someone, who said they were informed by someone in the know, told me, and several others, yesterday that the new PA3XPRO will be available for sale in January / February 2011.

So, get ready for a griddle full of PA2XPros ( since they were supposedly sold like hot cakes) to hit the second hand market in the new year.

Ian

I think that they will release a new M model synth first... The synth should yhave an improved sound engine, Karma 3+ and hopefully be able to run the EXi's developed for the Oasys. (would be very stupid from Korg not implement them as they have those programs readylli available without much effort, after all its software)

I also think that there will be advanced options to controll VST's running on a remote PC.

Then a few months later some of this technollogy should find its way intoo a new PA. Maybe even supporting audio styles.

Maybe Korg have simply learned not to make Ketron's fatal mistake...

Announce a product LONG before it is ready, then announce delay after delay while they try to get it to work right

2011 seems about right for Korg's regular product schedule, personally, I would bet on Q3 or 4 rather than Q1, but I also wouldn't be holding my breath for VSTi's or anything significantly Oasys or Karma based. Korg have yet to leverage the DNC capabilities they brought out in the update (SA capabilities without SA type samples is an utter waste of time, IMO), and all the PA series needs to sound SIGNIFICANTLY better than the PA2 is a good collection of samples specifically recorded to use the DNC engine (and three more fills, at least, IMO ). I believe you can already use DNC sounds in a style, so Yamaha are only JUST catching up to this capability with the T4, and little else needs adding to compete with Yamaha's new arranger.

FLASH RAM would be nice, but I doubt we'll see that until the M series has it. Tyros didn't get it until after MoXF got it, after all...

Korg already leads in the sampler section, guitar section, harmonizer section (I still doubt Yamaha has anything equivalent - without a major rack product, I doubt Yamaha has any significantly NEW technology for pitch transposition... I just see an incremental improvement in their harmonizer), drums and many operational aspects (they still are the only arranger with true WS quality voice editing).

I just don't see the NEED to go in a completely new direction just to compete with an incrementally upgraded T4. If Korg go all out and actually let DNC live up to its' potential by providing it with the samples it needs to show of, that will be enough to make us all sit up and take notice, I think.

Korg would need to make sure their new arranger is not heavy if they want to compete with Yamaha.