I am not a Tyros fan and have no real Yamaha arranger experience except for a 2nd hand T1 that i used a few weeks.

Out of the box Audya and Korg styles sound more "live" to me...

But with some tweaking it should be possible to give those yamaha factory styles a lot more live feeling..

-Use a filter to give the drums more kick and punch
-Give the drums and the bass tracks some more volume.
-Use effects and tweak the guitar sounds to sound more live..
-Move the Bass a little to the left and the guitar a little to the right in the stereo spectrum...
-remove the other tracks from the mix.

All in all this should make up for a more lively sound.... much cleaner styles.


Needles to say this is just my simple view on things without any hands on Yamaha arranger experience..

[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 09-20-2010).]

Bachus,

an easier way would be just to place an AUDYA just beneath it on your keyboard stand

Best way to optimize the Tyros is with EQ & CMP. It then really come to life. Lot of usful info on the link below.
http://psrtutorial.com/index.html

Graham beat me to the punch. There is a wealth of solid information on this subject on the PSR-Tutorial site and those that have utilized the settings are very happy with the results. Give it a try the next time you get your hands on that Tyros.

Good Luck,

Gary

Thing is, if the Yamaha CAN be made to have more punch and impact, why do Yamaha seem to go to such lengths to make sure that it DOESN'T, OOTB...?

The fact that there are articles up at the Yamaha arranger site detailing how to do this seems to indicate there's a genuine need and desire for it, even by diehard Yamaha fans.

maybe everyone doesn't want that in your face punch sound in their music...but with the CMP & EQ features on the Tyros series it will REALY make a difference....many people dont even know they exists in the unit...

I'm sorry, but for me, at least, the punch and dynamics of an arranger has FAR more to do with the basic sounds and the programming of the style than EQ and compression after the fact. In fact, for ME, I believe an arranger sounds its' liveliest with the LEAST compression on it. All compression does is DECREASE dynamics, not increase them!

It sure helps make them sound like a radio song or CD, as horribly over-compressed and limited as those are now, but you want to sound like a LIVE band, you need all the dynamics you can get

I know that some user settings can help diminish Yamaha's silky smooth muzak sound, but so far, even using those user settings, they still fall short of the impact and liveliness of Ketron's, Korg's and Roland's, IMO. And that has the most to do with the drum samples themselves and the programming of the styles... both FAR harder to fix than a simple EQ and compression curve change.

the reason it does not sound live is simply because Yamaha's primary market for Tyros is ex home organists. People who don't care if they play outside of solo instruments register, they want to mix strings and organ when playing a glen miller arrangement. They don't want live bassists or live drummers because its just not suitable for their style of play. In fact most don't even like much bass unless its the soft 'pom, pompom' of an 8' flute bass note

Yamaha have done a great Job at satifying the needs of the ex organists and a live feel would alienate the bread and butter market, seriously impacting sales.

The minority who use it professionally either have to play in that style or spend quite some time tweeking.




[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 09-21-2010).]

That stement hits it right on the money!!!

Compression=Not Live, killing the Dynamics so i agree with Diki on this one.
A style can sound Live ONLY if programmed that way, no EQ or CMP would do it.

Mostly dead on, TWD...although ex-organists are a large part of the buyer base, there are quite a few ex-band synth/combo organ/workstation users, and yes, quite a few guitar players...and, I've sold a couple of Tyros (one T2 and one T3) to former drummers, so the drum issue is not as relevant as some here believe.

Ian

Several years ago I read something about why Yamaha, and many other arranger keyboard and synth manufacturers, decided to get away from the Hot-OOTB sounds and go with a default sound of flat. It had nothing whatsoever to do with home organ players.

If I recall, the last hot out of the box arranger keyboard made by Yamaha was the PSR-2000. The PSR-3000 was a bit subdued in comparison. When questioned about this on another forum, someone stated that most of the tweaking and tuning of the overall keyboard or synth sound was usually done with a stand-alone, powered mixer--not in the keyboard. However, because Yamaha also had a relatively large contingent of home users that did not use external amps they improved their onboard effects system and expanded its capabilities beginning with the PSR-2000. It has improved dramatically with nearly every ensuing model over the past decade. Made perfectly good sense to me.

Gary

Correct Gary...and also there are several presets in the MIXER/EQ section to allow for various setups, and to provide a good base to start tweaking, if you so desire.

Ian

So, in effect, you are saying they voice them so lifeless and flat so that they sound good out of the built-in speakers (which would have to be a LOT more powerful and better frequency response to sound as good as a full system)..?

Yikes!

Why not make them full and punchy to START with, and then use the comps and EQ's to flatten the sound out for the built-ins, rather than the other way round, which is MUCH harder to achieve?

No Diki...in effect we are not saying that...you are.

Ian

Yep, I'm of this same opinion. As is the MAJOR music dealer I use, who is a power Yamaha seller out here.
And the guy (whose opinion I share) that manages the Arranger and Pianos section is a gigging muso, who happens to use Yamaha personally and is very much an unabashed fan of Yamaha keyboards.

Our view is they (the Yamaha arrangers - Tyros series and PSR 7 and 9 series) sound stellar using the inbuilt speakers, or the powered speaker system available for the Tyros line.

But hooked up to an external PA, the sound falls away dramatically, WITHOUT some serious tweaking of the outboard mixer, and the EQ options onboard.

Although to be fair, I also think the same re the G70 and in particular, Version 3, with most of the basses sounding great through cans, but through the PA need some tweaking to bring them under control.

Dennis

Right on Dennis...the Tyros and PSR sound stellar through their own speakers...not lifeless.

There are several EQ presets available in the mixer which are designed to work very well with Stagepas 300/500, and home stereo systems.

I use them all the time for clinics...I get a terrific punchy sound just using the factory presets.

Ian

Ian,
So how do they sound using powered monitors like my Mackie HR-824's? (250 watts each)

Does it take a lot of tweekig to use flat monitors? Or...anyone with the answer on this?

My Korg PA2XPRO came OOTB with the master EQ OFF! When I turned it to ON and tweeked the setting only a little bit POW! great sound.

Lee S.

For what its worth Lee, when I had the Tyros 2, I turned off all the compression for live PA work. And I used the EQ.....ummm "Live" I think it was called, or maybe "Stage"..

Ian is right in that it does not take much to change it up for live PA. All I am saying is it does NEED to be done in my view.

Using on-board speakers, or the system especially for the tyros line will present no sound quality issues at all, in my view.

Dennis

At home I use Yamaha MS60S powered monitors which are set to flat...both tone controls at 12:00.

For the S910 and Stagepas 300/500, I think I used Concert or AuxOut PA...I can't remember what I used on the T3, and it's not here at the moment...neither do I have a Stagepas system...the stores provide the PA.

I was also using the S900 with two Bose L1 systems in stereo for some solo theatre gigs...I set the S900 at Concert, which is a mild smiley face.

It sounded really really good with superb coverage and an excellent stereo effect.

I sold the Bose for what I paid for them.

I'd like to see Yamaha make a similar line-array to the Bose.

I have never used/tried Mackies, although they are well reviewed and a few buddies of mine use them.

I'm really tickled with Yamaha's tight and detailed sound...it's not for everyone, but, it works very well for my style of playing...it's awesome for recording too.

Ian

I agree with Dennis that the v3 G70 ROM style basses were tubby... Personally, I blame the new per-Part EQ, which they tended to over-use, and to the onboard basses being less than stellar in the first place. But since I got the SRX-07 card (and an SR-G01 card with some of the same samples on it), the bass end of my G70 is as good as anything out there...

But, as far away from flat as ALL built-in speakers are (this isn't a Yamaha bash, Ian), and as smooth and undynamic as Yamaha's base like them, it is obvious that, played through GOOD speakers (HR824's for me, too!), they are going to suffer a bit.

I didn't make that post up, Ian, Gary's post about the change in voicing from using external amps and speakers to voicing the styles using the internal speakers said EXACTLY the same thing, albeit a bit more considerately

Once you decide to do your voicing and mixing through speakers that are anything but flat, you can hardly expect it to sound good once it IS played through a good system. There's a reason studios buy really, really expensive flat systems to mix on...

Thanks very much, Diki.

Ian

OK...Thanks guys...That's what I thought...I do like the Mackies pretty well..and when I want volume...look out (Only when my wife is gone out!). Very little distortion even at very high volumes.

On the Korg PA...all I did is turn on the Master EQ and ramp up the bass a little and the treble and it sounds really good to my ears.
I run the highs up more than most of you would because I have loss in the highs with my ears (damage)..I worked on a lot of very loud IBM equipment for a lot of years!

Lee S.

It's important to be aware of the loudness curve, and how the human ear perceives frequencies differently depending on volume. What sounds good quietly won't sound the same when pumped up to dancefloor levels...

It's also a good thing to be aware when one has a frequency loss, due to age or abuse, and factor that into what we do when playing to OTHER people that may not suffer from it. Sure, it means perhaps a compromise in what WE get to hear, but once you are playing for other people, what THEY are hearing should be the main thing, IMO...

I've always felt the most important aspect of a sound system is the ability of the person behind the keyboard to hear exactly what those sitting in the audience hear. For that reason I dead-plug the keyboard's onboard speakers so they are disabled during my performances. I have a friend who was not disabling his onboard speakers and didn't know why his audience suddenly stopped dancing. He was using a mixer and fired everything through individual channels before going to the PA. Turns out that the cable from the keyboard's output had gone bad in the middle of a song--but he didn't know it. He was still playing the keyboard, but only a few people sitting a couple yards from the keyboard could hear anything at all. Of course his mic was still firing through the amp. Fortunately, I was there when it happend, quickly figured out what happened, replaced the cable with one of my spares and he was back in business. I gave him one of my spare dead-plugs and he has used it ever since. Additionally, he changed the EQ settings on his keyboard because he was no longer hearing the onboard speakers--it made a huge difference.

Cheers,

Gary

Add a little 60 cycle Hum...that should do ot...

TP, I'm not quite sure you get it... OF COURSE it's my opinion. Just as yours is yours. And, of course, precious few of us have EVER had someone come up and say they wished we played something else, no matter WHAT it is!

I no more expect you to like the Roland sound than you should expect me to like the Yamaha one. I imagine at some point or another, you have favorably compared your Yamaha to every other arranger out there. Are WE to get insulted that you don't like Roland (or Korg, or whatever you think your Yamaha is superior to)?

'Cause I don't... You can post as much as you want to about Roland. I know Ian does! Doesn't worry me in the slightest...

And, if you post about it enough, I'll get the impression that what you say is REALLY how you feel, it's YOUR OPINION. And I WON'T be telling you to take a couch and get some therapy. Because, of course, you are entitled to feel that way...

Grow a pair. If you want the freedom to be able to voice YOUR opinion, allow others the freedom to voice theirs... or STFU. It's what you want from ME, after all...! Sauce for the goose(step) is sauce for the gander