Like I said, I'm pretty happy with the way the Digitechs Vocalists are working for me.

You stated emphatically that "hear players that DON"T KNOW HOW to use the vocalizer in live performance correctly...VH is an art form all to itself."

I gave you two different kinds of singers to discuss. You can't even begin to comment in general on what you'd suggest to these two capable but different singers?

OK, let's try something different.

You say there's no general method a person can use. Fine. Would you please discuss the method you use? (That takes care of the "hearing examples" issue.)

I just want to hear your thoughts on how a harmonizer should be used, since you obviously have strong feelings on the subject...




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Bill in Dayton

Singing & Music is to be heard first....then disussed.
So I guess you cannot provide an example either here or in a private email. With all the variables in the human voice, inflection, intonation, depth, key, vibrato,
phrasing, chord input, and much more tangibles.....you can understand why "LISTENING FIRST" makes for a more in-depth discussion on using Vocal Harmony via an arranger keyboard.

Good grief...

I asked you to comment on how YOU do it. Surely you're familiar with your OWN WORK?

You make this bold statement then run and hide when asked to expand on it.

I understand...



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Bill in Dayton

Getting back ON TOPIC...anyway who am I to give advice, I still look forward in a few weeks to totaly test out the Tyros 4 VH2 vocal harmonizer.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-08-2010).]

I think when folks use the word "blend" pertaining to the vocalizer...they are referring to the volume level compared to the lead voice...

Over bearing harmony, just does not sound natural and distracts from the lead voice..

To low of a contrast harmony level..does not sound realistic....but the proper "blend" can make both the harmony and lead sound real (or as close to real as possible with the technology).

The on board vocalizer on the Yamaha products I have owned...were not stable enough for me..it would distort to easily and was inconsistent (a mind of it's own)..Even the lead mic input seemed to have problems with signal level...

It seems that Frank is saying this is improved, but still not able to compete with the high quality stand a lone units..

Using a harmony correctly certainly includes ..knowing when to use it or not within a song...Overuse can ruin an entire performance ..all night long...sparingly can dramatically make the over all performance better..

When it doubt..don't use it..

Amen, Frank...I agree with everything you said.

It will be another really great selling point if the T4 harmonizer has the quality and capacity that the earlier models didn't. It will have to be pretty darn good to replace using a stand alone model, but its possible, right?

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Bill in Dayton

One of the things about harmony in the real world is, there is an enormous difference between three or four different singers blending together to make a harmonious whole, and a single singer, double and triple tracking to create their own backups.

Sadly, the machines tend to concentrate on the latter, obviously, but IMO it is the former that leads to the best sounding harmonies. Even Phil and Don had subtle differences between the two, and once you get up to Lennon and McCartney, Roberta Flack and Donny Hathaway and beyond, there simply isn't a harmony generator out there that can capture that! I must confess, in the five years or more of owning my G70, I haven't used it ONCE. If I want a harmony that bad, I'll get in a duo or up. I don't need the audience thinking that even MORE of what they hear isn't me than is already done artificially!

I have a nasty feeling that the pitch correction is likely to be the most used feature of the Yamaha's... I can't WAIT to hear some Mills Bros., T-Pain'ed up to the max! Better watch out, all you good singers out there... The dread Max Autotune is coming to a retirement home near you soon!

First, arrangers made bad players sound decent. Now they are going to make bad singers sound decent. What's next? Will we soon be able to buy an arranger that already COMES in a chicken hat..?

Hey Diki your getting much better...
you were able to insult ever Arranger KB Player, Singer, and Nursing Home Performer all in one post, Bravo!

(Brace yourself, Donny!)

I agree with what Mr. Pesce just said...

I'd say more but I have to go out in the "fake" world and do my thing...

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Bill in Dayton

I just got back from a "fake world" 61 key show....everyone really enjoyed themselves.
More faking tomorrow too....Yipppee!

Donny the Braced one

!