Should Ketron and Yamaha include touch screens on their new generation keyboards?

After all, touch screens are becoming (if not already) prevalent on consumer products.
Is that the next logical step for Ketron and Yamaha?



------------------
TTG

Yes, but only if they're able to offer a touch screen similar to the Apple iPad, of which bright clear visibility & easy touch navigation outdoors in sunlight. I'm finding the Apple iPad terrific for viewing leadsheets & lyrics outdoors. I use & highly recommend the $.99 GoodReader App for this.

I only wish a company would come out with an iPad stand similar to what Freehand offers for the MusicPad:



of which features a swivel mount allowing you to quickly rotate the MusicPad to portrait and landscape positions. The above pic shows the MusicPad stand in Portrait Mode, but I prefer rotating it to landscape position to maintain better audience visibility.

Scott Yee Entertainment

Yes! And if not quite a big as the one Scott shows here,
at least 4 times as big as the one at G-70.

Cheers
GJ

I think Yamaha decision not to use them is likely based on their target audience. Older gentlemen tend not to like Touch Screens.

Ketron on the other hand are heavily dependent on buttons and to move away from that, a new interface would be needed.

A new interface = Ketron users turn into fish out of water. They would have to get used to a new way of working.

My 2 cents only though.

James.

Touch screens are only as good as the UI written for them. My G70's screen is utterly reliable when pressing areas large enough to BE reliable.

However, there are a couple of functions that suffer from either being in the wrong place (octave transpose up and down areas are in the middle of several other things, a little harder to hit precisely when you are in a rush), or too small (the button for Fill/Rit is a bit small, despite being in a large blank area all by itself).

But none of these are the fault of the touch screen itself. It's is dependable, easy to read (MUCH better than MoXS screens - tiny fonts in many areas, there) and well laid out with a couple of exceptions. Despite the rush you are in when playing pretty busy with both hands, I rarely EVER get anything other than what I want from it.

Given that a touch screen can present FAR more needed functions on one screen than a non-touch surrounded by just a few buttons, and that issue means that much needed functions are often on different pages rather than all in one place, I think the touch screen is the better solution.

They have MUCH improved since the early days (think original Triton!) and I think it's time they were universally adopted...

Just make sure any problems you have with them aren't more to do with the User Interface layout, rather than the underlying technology...

Not sure if I could live without a touch screen. If an alternative to do the same thing with button pushing is available, it's the best of 2 worlds. The 800 touch is magical and a dream for live play. I hate trying to "line up" things.

I like the touch screens.
The one on my PA2XPRO works fine.

It is especially nice when keying in names for saving ect. I never liked that terrible system Yamaha uses for entering text. In 2010 you should not have to use buttins to do text...either a kbd port or touch screen.

I do think all the operations should also have a button..especially for all of the blind players out there.

Lee S.

I think you have made some very interesting points.
I could see the next generation of Yamaha workstations possibly using touch screens. How ever, for arrangers it would be difficult for Yamaha to include touch screens on their arranger and still keep their audience. Yamaha’s arranger market are those who are not very interested with the latest technology. So trying to introduce them to a whole new way of doing things would tern them off. Touch screen on a Yamaha arranger would present more problems that the 61 vs 76 dilemma.

Ketron on the other hand, may be able to get away with including a touch screen but as you said they would have to change their interface. A new generation would have to do that any way. But I think as cell phones, e-book readers and computers use touch screens, it is the next logical progression for keyboard manufacturers.


------------------
TTG

That is a very good point.
Would touch screen prevent some persons (like the visually impaired) from using the keyboards? Should it matter for the manufacturer? After all they are probably a very small segment of the keyboard community.

What about touch screens for live gigs would buttons not be better because you don’t have to look at the screens?



------------------
TTG

Curiously, those technophobes apparently buying TOTL arrangers are buying the LATEST, greatest technology to make sounds, control sounds and play sounds...

Why do you think, after grappling with SA2 technology, revoiceing styles, a folder based computer hook up, Ethernet content delivery, sampler loading and using, Registration programming and audio recording and mixing, that a touch screen is going to be the one thing that will make them go screaming into the hills, looking for something simpler?

More Sliders & Knobs please

They cost money, Donny.

I agree that MOST of what runs an arranger for day to day general playing be on buttons, etc., but most modern arrangers are WAY complicated. Putting most of the features that you MIGHT use (if you stretch beyond simple arranger operation) on hardware buttons and sliders would dramatically increase the cost, IMO.

Realtime operations on buttons, but editing and offline stuff on the touchscreen seems to be the best way to go about things, in my experience.

I agree looks like Ketron is on the right track in the navagational department for now.

That is one of many things I like about the Audya. I have never been a button pusher, electing, instead, to make up fixed registrations. I find much more freedom, now, in easily pushing "Family" buttons containing my favorite instruments. This is in addition to the other intuitive buttons for navigation.

So bernie how we doing with the Audya so far??

Guess I won't be buying many new keyboards when touch screens become standard. Do you suppose most keyboard manufacturers will put voiceover features on the screen to give audible spoken feedback of what I'm doing, similar to the iphone? Do you suppose I will be wanting to run that voice feedback through the PA system so my audience can get in on what I'm doing? I know I'm a pretty small fraction of the keyboard buying market, but I hope I'm not left behind. If so, guess I'll just keep playing my Nord. Yes, I finally got the stage EX, at long last!

+1

They should make ALL buttons, dials, knobs etc. freely assignable. BTW, buttons, dials and knobs are CHEAP.

FAEbGBD,
I'm certainly not qualifed to say for sure...but it seems like when you get to the complex deep editing it would not matter to the seeing impaired if it is touch screen or lots of button pushes?

So, I hope ALL Mfgs do keep the seeing impaired in mind and provide an easy button oriented interface. Whether they do the programmig stuff using a touch screen or buttons may not matter?

It seems it would be nice for the deep editing stuff to pull the data to a PC where you could use tools that help the seeing impaired to do editing...then push the changes out? I know some of this is being done already.
Also, maybe some day a phone jack for earphone (earbud)for audio feedback of button pushes and even screen navigation?

What do you think?

Lee S.

I guess I could use a touch screen but for live performance I find physical buttons a lot easier to find quickly. I use a Yamaha Motif 6 and I like having 16 buttons spread out in front of me to quickly bring up preset patches during a performance. A touch screen wouldn't provide anywhere near the same sort of real estate spacing for quick and accurate selection.

Roland (E80) Touch screen works very well because although not large it contains very clear icons. The Korg however has small icons plus too many on the screen meaning you have to use the back of your finger nail to change.

Scottyee has the right comment, but I shudder at the price !!!
PS. I'm 73 and agreet that Touch Sreens are the future.

Without audio feedback, how would I know where on the screen to touch? OK, from the top left corner, move your finger down y millimeters and across x millimeters and press and hopefully you wil have guessed properly the correct spot to touch on a smooth surface? Nope. Much easier to remember a sequence of button presses, where you can actually feel what you're doing. As far as computer interface, that would be fine as long as the designers built the gui with accessible keystrokes. Usually these things are so mouse dependant there is no accessible method for blind users. Kontakt instruments for example, forget it. I'm surely not one for stopping progress, but it's gonna be a bugger if more and more stuff starts going the way of the touch screen.

More Buttons & Sliders Please

Regarding Scott Yee’s reference to the MPP and iPad … I used the MPP for years for lyrics, but when I started using the Midjay – it offers a VGA connection – so I went to an 8” LCD monitor. I used Velcro to mount the monitor to the MPP bracket. I would think that you could Velcro the iPad to the MPP stand bracket as well. I like the 8” monitor because it has a low profile and does the job. Now, if the iPad could receive a VGA-in signal, I would buy one to use as a monitor as I like the size and the fact that it far better in the sunlight, and for several other features. If the MPP could receive VGA-in I would be more than happy. From what I’ve read, both the iPad and MPP can feed a VGA-out, but apparently their respective inner configurations won’t allow them to receive a VGA signal even with one of the many VGA converters available. Nonetheless, I keep hoping that there may be a way to use the MPP or iPad as a monitor with the Midjay …
When I use the Korg PA800, I use the touch screen when I have to or press the buttons when it facilitates the situation - no problems there.
Ciao,
Jerry

Buttons and sliders are NOT cheap! Where did anyone get that impression?

Remember, you not only have to factor in the cost of the button or slider itself, but all the associated circuitry to interpret what it does and input the values (especially sliders) into the OS. You also have to factor in the increase in production cost to install all of the buttons and sliders, then the testing of them. The fewer the buttons, the cheaper the keyboard... If the original DX7 had been made with a button for every function, no-one could have afforded it!

And, let's not get carried away... Do you REALLY want to play something as button heavy as a Wersi or an MS..? Those things look impractical in the extreme for live use, with rows and rows of buttons, all doing something completely different, and one misstep in the middle of a live performance and who KNOWS what you are going to get..?

Maybe we could narrow things down...

What do YOU think is the two or three functions that currently you HAVE to use the screen for, that you would prefer to have on a button or slider? Prioritize your needs.

Here's mine. Octave transposition for Parts is on the screen (surrounded by other functions, although the 'button' area is quite big enough). I would prefer it on a couple of buttons. That's about IT, for me...

What's yours?

jerry you coming to the SMN dinner meeting ?

Either is the Tyros 4 or Audya, PA2x.......
whats your point......



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-13-2010).]