I have been a long time user of harmonizers and I have found a few tips along the way that make for a more realistic performance.
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First, and MOST important - there is no ONE mix that is correct all night long. I adjust the level between lead and harmony constantly ... sometime even within a song. Using mic technique and dynamic expression is not enough ... sometimes the backups are different - sometimes they are equal.
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Second - identify YOUR sound. Are you trying to do the Beach Boys, CSNY, Boys2Men? Each approach requires a style recognition. Most successful harmony groups had similar, non superior solo voices. The Lettermen for example - sounded amazing together, but very average as soloists. Identify your objective, then study their sound - blend like they do, modify your diction to make the sounds more pleasing. Simply adding 2-3 voices to a mix does not make it better, but it DOES make it bigger, so maybe the end result needs to be reduced in volume, lower the bass EQ, whatever the final mix sounds like is determined by the blend. Use your ears.
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Third - use different patches. Sometimes a simple 2 part harmony is best aka Simon and Garfunkel, Everly Bros and such. I use about 4 basic setups.
1. full 3 parts plus me - fairly equal volume
2. octave lower with NO lead - Barry White
(people actually love this!)
3. one voice 1/3 above the lead - equal balance - works great in lots of cases
4. one above and one below the lead - this is a fuller sound than the Phil&Don patch, but not so bold as the Four Freshman sound.
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When I accompany a lead singer I use the appropriate patch for the song and I LOWER my lead vocal to blend in slightly less than the harmonies. If your lead is too loud - the notes you sing will be out of balance with the rest of the ensemble. If it's too low, the harmonies will sound more robotic and unnatural. Again - CONSTANTLY monitor the bled and make adjustments on the fly.
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Last night, singing with Frans group gave me the opportunity to be the backup band with ooohs and ahhs galore. It was like being in the Carpenters band. I loved it and the result was wonderful. I listened to the lead - followed her inflection, and laid down a pad that kept her voice on top of a lush, flowing blanket of sound that complimented the lyrics without making it muddy or overbearing. That's the secret. The WORDS have to be the top priority always.

For those starting out - use the 1/3 above voice first and get comfy with a song like "Bye, Bye Love". Only use it on the chorus first, and learn the triggering. I use a footswitch that lives next to my sustain pedal. Easy to get to. After you get good at that - add the harmonies where the boys did - almost all the way through with certain breaks for effect. You need to be a vocal arranger now - it's another hat to wear, but it's SO much fun to run the choir AND the band! Have fun guys!
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On a sidenote - the TC harmonizer in the PA800 has been like a dream for me. I use it direct from the keys, or trigger it with my Parker midi-fly guitar and I LOVE the result.
Yamaha has a huge challenge in front of them to compete with how good the TC sounds. I hoe the new million dollar Tyros Platinum has the goods! LOL !
Enjoy singers!

Sorry for the typos. I'm a music teacher - not an ENGLISH teacher! lol

Good stuff, all around...



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Bill in Dayton

I have been using them since my PA1xPro...I agree with all of UD's post. Good advice for those wishing to use them.

At a guess, without actually going and counting, I use a single harmony voice about 75% of the time. Two voices for 24% and three or more for the other 1%.

The harmony is meant to complement the main vocal not drown it out in my view. My rule of thumb is 65% of the main vocal, but like UD, I will from time to time, and gig to gig, alter this on the fly depending on the room, the crowd and ... how I am feeling!!

Sometimes I just turn it off altogether!

Dennis

Great post, UD. The worst thing you can do with a harmonizer is to overuse it. I once heard someone use it for entire songs with no changes - really bad.

What is your recommendation on use of pitch correction?
Thanks,
Lee S.

remember Dave uses
RIGHT HAND CHORD TRIGGERING......
makes a big difference...

Thanks Dave
Since I use left hand and midi triggering, what advice changes ?
Bernie

I've been aware of that, but what I don't understand, is how can you then do anything else with your right hand... comping, fills, etc? Would seem like something is missing.

With respect Donny, no it doesn't make much difference at all. The harmonisers look for a chord pattern, NOT the octave it is played in.

The harmoniser algorithms are designed to recognise roots thirds and the altering notes, sixth and seventh.

I could play a ten finger chord and the harmoniser will still only apply the correct harmony note/s according to the basic chord shape.

What DOES affect the sound is the number of voices, usually up to four, and the timbres chosen...Don't mistake the low sound in a harmony for playing a low note on the keyboard. Check and you will find it is a voice set to a bass timbre..

With my PAx's I usually set all the harmony voice timbres and octaves to flat, or 0. This gave the most realistic results, as did setting the harmony to close.

I played chords on the keyboard in full piano mode and in arranger split mode (chord rec on upper or lower depending on the song) and I did not notice any difference on the harmonies generated.

Dennis

Dennis ..the exception is vocoder mode..try it on your G70..what notes (intervals)played, are the same the vocal harmony will produce..including octaves..

Yes very true Fran...

I have never used vocoder mode on anything, even with the Korgs (although theirs is not very well implemented). I don't find any particular use for it.

Dennis

Well I guess I left out the word RH vocoder...

Well the original topic was Harmonisers 101, NOT vocoders, they are two different things.
and if asked I would suggest UD used the harmoniser and NOT the vocoder

Dennis

Sorry that should have been UD was talking ABOUT the harmoniser not used.

Of course not knowing the guy, he may very well have been talking about a vocoder, but then I think he perhaps would have named the topic Harmonisers and Vocoders

As you would know, all the vocoder does is simply play the exact notes you play, where you play them. With the disadvantage (or advantage for some??) that it also plays the notes via the sound engine too, unless turned off or down. Not to mention any slight glitch notes, they get added in too.

With some of the newer harmonisers they do not add these notes as they are not recognised as part of of the correct scale for the key. But a vocoder plays EVERYTHING, bum notes and all!! Unless in mono mode, which sorta defeats the idea really!!

They have been around for years. A lot longer than harmony units.

Dennis

Never used a vocoder, and although I DO trigger from the right hand mostly, I do sometimes use LH triggers if I am using an accp pattern. I'll address this more later, but I'm on my way out the door. The biggest advantage of RH triggers to me is in the passing tones and complex chords I can use to really enhance the harmonies. My left hand has always been a bass player for me, and I do not have the dexterity to play really beautiful chords with that hand, so if I'm in arr mode - the chords are kind of simple - that's why I play so many chords on top of the arrangement with the RH.

When I use a harmony patch, the notes are not governed by my hand by the passing tones and subtle chord changes are. I try to think like a vocal ensemble, and phrase accordingly. I'll punch in and out during a phrase, scoop to a new pitch .... lots of smooth, lush effects make the arrangement really stand out, in stead of getting in the way.
My trademark sound is really as a vocal group, not a singer with backups.
TTYL .... gotta get my car inspected!

Dennis, the "vocoder" mode on the G70 is more flexible than what was on Korg etc..You select "my voice" and it harmonises as the other modes do....doesn't matter if you use right hand or left hand or right foot ,, ..The last line was for Donny and Dave...

To be honest, the vocoder mode is the only one that I have any inclination to use. Unless you are doing Andrews Sisters or Mills Bros (and even they don't rigidly block), suspensions, close block chords that clash and resolve against the chord played, passing notes, counter-harmony, those are the things that make great harmony. The slavish blocking around a chord, without those passing notes and resolutions is the hallmark of the artificial harmony generator.

And, I'm afraid, no matter HOW good the actual vocal transposition, immediately SCREAMS 'Machine!'

Nah, disagree totally. ON the G70 and the Korg there are plenty of ways to get s ingel note harmony or double..If you read my post you would see that is pretty much all I used.

And if the vocoder does as you say, it is MORE likely to produce those multi-voice harmonies, that SCREAM machine!! That you seem to despise, going by your post. Gping on what Fran has posted the vocoder is not monophonic.

At least when you restrict the harmoniser to one or two notes that is ALL you get.

And I would REALLY like to know, (as you so often say you play mostly in piano mode), if you use Vocoder, how do you stop all your left hand notes getting in the way too?

In harmoniser mode this is NOT an issue because it is reading from a chord structure. Be it maj, min, 6th, min6th, ninth, maj6th maj7th , whatever.

I repeat I find one or two harmony voices PLENTY. Any more DOES scream machine...

I mean we are a solo or duo(with the other guy not singing) I mean how "real" do you think folks think our harmonies are anyway???!!!

Dennis

Fran I took your advice and played around with this.

WOW!! Where has this Roland vocoder been in my arr playing gigs...Man it is one seriously cool bit of work..Way better than anything on the Korg.

Thank you very much for the heads up on it..

To be honest if you had not said anything, I would never had tried it, oh I knew it was there sure enough, but my past experiences with vocoders caused me to ignore it..

Now I fully understand why the upper/lower or full keyboard is so important in vocoder mode. And it is really a lot easier to get good harmonies than the harmony mode.

I can also see how Diki can fit it in with piano mode as well. I also use mostly (95%) of styles in full keyboard, piano mode.

Guess who will be using it from now on

Cheers
Dennis

Oh and ....Sorry I EVER doubted you!!!

I wouldn't steer you wrong..

At $499 TC-Helicon's new Voice Live Touch is worth considering for an external device. It can sit right on your keyboard or on a stand making it easily accessible. The Voice Live Touch has basically the same engine as the much more expensive Voice Live2 but apparently it won't be available until later in the year from what I understand. There may have been some unexpected glitches because it was actually announced a long time ago. Hopefully it will be available by Christmas as it would make a great gift for under the tree. And no, I don't work for TC-Helicon. I just thought I'd mention it again for those who may not know about it yet.

TC Helicon Voice Live Touch

I would wait until KORG & ROLAND make their arranger appearances very soon....as they both will have excellent VH units inside them..

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-13-2010).]

I just have NO IDEA where anyone is getting this idea that 'any minute now' Roland are going to re-enter the MOTL and TOTL arranger business. THEY ARE GONE...!

This 'any minute now' has been claimed for about the last four YEARS or so... How long after Technics left the stage did people claim they were about to start back up? Was it this long? REALLY..?