I just finished reading a lengthy Kipplinger Report/Letter from their senior tax editor. At the very least it was scary. The way things are going, there will be massive tax increases in the U.S. beginning January 2011, many of which will heavily impact businesses of all sizes.

Import tariffs are already sky high, and slated to increase by a significant margin. You have to wonder what impact this will have on manufacturers of arranger keyboards. Obviously there will be substantial price increases, and the feds are already talking about a VAT (Value Added Tax) here that will jack some prices out of sight.

Looking at the recent history of arranger keyboard manufacturers, it makes me wonder who will be around five years from now. I suspect that at most, one or two current manufacturers will still be making TOTL and mid-price arrangers and all others will either get out of the arranger business altogether, or switch to manufacturing a few synths and other components that are more lucrative.

I could be way off base with this one, but I don't think so.

Gary

Well since I already have my top models shipped from Italy..I don't have to concern myself with vat for now..

Mediastation and G70 are in house..


Where are all the people that voted for our president....No one takes credit (blame) for putting him in office..
I must have asked a hundred people if they voted for him...and so far one person has accepted blame..

I know two guys that voted for him. Coincidentally, I'm sure, both are out of work.
Get out and vote next week or you don't get to criticize!
Is it just me, or does it seem as if each President has gotten progressively worse for some time now? I did feel much more secure under Bush (post 911). If we catch a terrorist now, we have to scold him and warn him not to do it again. I know I was making more money under the previous administration. And I thought HE was spending too much. Turns out it was a drop in the bucket.
I'm lucky to have three of the best arrangers ever made so I won't have to buy any more unless I want to. Of course the PSR2000 is way past its prime, but the E50 and Audya are still unsurpassed in their price ranges, at least for MY purposes.
DonM

So let me get this straight. Your president who has only been in office for under 2 years is solely responsible for the finacial difficulties your country is in ? I live in the UK and our economy is screwed up too. Can we blame him as well ??? I mean a scape goat is a scape goat right ??

We are all to blame. Not the politicians. We want everything, and we want it NOW...! And we will stupidly follow anyone that promises it to us. So they ALL promise it to us.

We shipped all our manufacturing jobs overseas to cheap labor countries, just so we could continue an unsustainable growth rate and get by on the credit cards, and even that prop has now gone. And, of course, so are the jobs. So you can't BUILD your way out of a recession. We have screwed ourselves.

Globalization means global labor markets. And that means the labor market in the first world has to drop to the labor market levels of the third world. While we still LIVE in the first world and pay first world prices. But we had a good run on our credit cards, didn't we?

Now the check is due. And there's no job to pay it. Unless we move to China or Malaysia, etc., and go make arrangers over THERE at THEIR wages...

Best of luck...

Hi Gary
The US is a minor market for Arrangers, so while manufactures might stop importing them to the US, you will still be able to get TOTL Arrangers from overseas. (Although you will probably have to pay a lot more for them)
Regards

Bill

Make that three, Mr. Mason.

I voted for Barack Obama...

Am I happy with everything he's done? Not by a long shot. Will I vote for him again, it depends on what choices I have available to me. I was undecided until McCain added Palin to the ticket and rather quickly it seemed clear to me which way to go.

I've usually voted Republican through my adult life including both GW Bush terms...I feel less and less comfortable with GOP policies as they trip over themselves jumping into bed with the Tea Party people. They're going to simply have to get a bigger bed if the Religious Right, Wall Street, etc. are all going to fit. Do what the Dems did, they knew Unions, minorities, etc. needed to room to spread out, lol...

As far as increased tariffs go, since Clinton's NAFTA went through, our import/export balance has suffered greatly as we made it easy for other countries to sell their products in the US, but with no reciprocal accommodations on their part. This is the subject of great debate in Congress and maybe someday somebody will try and level the playing field again. China is kicking our butt, playing games with their currency and of course holds much of our debt.

As far as business goes under Obama...I keep getting busier and busier, with almost no advertising expenses. I have business cards and my website, which total might cost me $160 or so a year to maintain. I have a waiting list, I turn down a lot of work...Its been like this for several years, so maybe there's not much connection between my business and whoever's President.

Spending-Bush took a huge surplus, transformed it within 8 years into the largest deficit EVER in the history of the US, but we gave him a pass on it mostly because of 9/11, I guess. Obama inherited quite the debt when he walked in, plus the economic crisis as well. Keep in mind, Bush ran the Iraq War, the Medicare part D handout to the insurance companies, plus the tax cuts...all off budget. Meaning basically debt numbers were actually much worse than most average people understood. Obama has certainly added to the deficit but when your boat is leaking, you don't quibble much on repairs, do you? While it seems evident we "chose" to go to war in Iraq, Obama didn't create any of the troubles facing us-we can disagree on how he's trying to fix them, but he didn't create them at all.

Security wise? Yes, there's been a few incidents, but none have succeeded. Some of that's luck, some of its not. Luck will always play a part in fighting terrorism. To my knowledge, none of the people involved in any of those attempts has been released. (Don-If you know of one who has been, please let me know who...)Obama has been more aggressive than Bush ever was in Afghanistan, especially using the drones to target enemies, increased troops, etc.

I think arranger prices in the US will increase slightly, Japan has enough of their own financial issues right now, they've shown a consistent pattern of honoring the GATT agreements and holding tariffs lower on electronics in exchange for the handsome sales they enjoy in the US.

I do agree completely with Gary that the arranger market will see fewer serious players going forward. Mr. Diamond's dead on...

Spalding-Obama is to blame for everything, lol...

------------------
Bill in Dayton


[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 10-29-2010).]

Well, it was just a matter of time. I always wondered how long it would be before Obama would be blamed for the eminent demise of arranger keyboards. As Bill pointed out (T-I-C), Obama is to blame for everything bad in America.

Of course, what is rarely talked about and is probably America's worst kept secret, is the fact that a sizable portion of Americans just cannot accept the reality of a Black president. We make up all kinds of excuses and put all kinds of spins on why we hate the current administration, but in the end, for a sizable group, it's just good ol' fashioned American-brand racism. All those thinly disguised slogans, "WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK", etc., fool no one. We've all seen the signs at the so-called 'Tea Party' rallies, showing Obama in all kinds of demeaning caricatures, usually with racial overtones. You would have to be blind not to see the real tone of these rallies and the people behind them. Then there is the constant and unrelenting hate-mongering of right-wing talk radio. But look at who buys into this garbage. Look at their average age, occupation, race, geographical area, religion, and (most importantly) educational level. Sadly, this country is infected with a disease that will probably ultimately lead to it's demise. We are willing to send a bunch of obviously unqualified clowns to Congress, to govern us, to legislate for us, to determine our role in this world, as long as they can demonstrate that they hate Obama more than the other guy. No plan, no agenda, just that they pledge to do everything in their power to undermine the current administration, whether or not it is in the best interest off the people.

They conveniently ignore the fact that taxes have actually gone down by 3.7% since Obama took office, or that the rate of job loss was twice as high at the end of the Bush administration than it currently is. They fail to ever mention the financial and regulatory reforms that were passed to stop the institutional practices that got us into this economic mess in the first place. No, we're too busy obsessing over the fact that our president is Black. Never in history has there been such disrespect for the office of the president, or the person occupying that office. Shame, shame, I say.

A friend of mine from my (Unitarian) church sent me some of his thoughts on the matter: I'll share some of them with you.

"The notion that we can have a major political movement represented by anti~government candidates is at the rotten root of the moment! How gullible can so many of us be? We have a government for a reason. It creates the rules and regulations we will function within. The idea the free enterprise system, commerce and accumulated wealth will act in the best interest of the nation is a myth that many have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
The foundation of the nation was based on a flight from an aristocracy that ruled over
the common man. I acknowledge that a majority of the founders were from a privileged strata of European society, but it was not the implications of the Declaration and the Constitution we work with.
There are certain domains of public life that must not be trusted to the ethics and morality of private individuals or corporate entities. The gains being made in the accumulation of wealth and power into fewer and fewer hands, coupled with a greater and greater tendency for corporations to grow internationally does not bode well for the United States.
Private enterprise that has no obligation to the sovereignty of the country of its origins is free to exit this country and any other country that does not meet its goals for profit. Profit that has no responsibility to the people and resources it exploits anywhere on the globe.
Privatizing the military, schools, prisons, communications systems, roads, airlines
health care, and the like can only mean that we, the people, must tolerate the tension and threat of the withdrawal of goods and services at any moment the board of directors finds it expedient to do so. Then leave the government and its people holding the bag.
At least one third of this nation has confused the common needs of us all with some bizarre counterfeit of freedom. This is a dangerous moment. The consequences for having "THE BEST GOVERNMENT ONLY MONEY CAN BUY" are on the horizon.
I hope the American experiment is not at its zenith.
There are going to be great battles ahead, inside and outside of government, over these issues I have tried to articulate above. Active citizenship is the first and most important step. This is my definition of patriotism.
I hope the battlefield remains civil and within the framework of The Constitution.
Contemplating the alternative is a contemplation of chaos on a grand scale."
I felt compelled to get out of my sick bed to respond to this thread. I really hate seeing these attitudes among people that I am sure I would otherwise like on a personal level.


chas

First, this belongs in "The Bar" ...
Second, Chas, you KNOW I like you and think highly of you, but I am VERY sorry to see the race card played here ...
I have black friends who think Obama is doing a terrible job ... are THEY racist??? ...
Not every criticism of any black person is because they are black ...
And for as far back as I can remember, caricatures of EVERY President have overly - and negatively - stressed their 'unique' physical characteristics ... and has ANY President been MORE disrespected than Bush was - especially the last couple of years he was in office ... I think we forget too quickly ...

t.

Tony, I like you as well, because I know you're a sincere and honest guy. First of all, I have no stake in 'playing the race card' which is usually done to gain some kind of advantage. Secondly, any disrespect towards Bush came after 8 straight years of leading this country down a very dark path; Obama's started on the day he took the oath of office.

A very large number of good Americans have a difficult time seeing or acknowledging America's 'dark side'. But until we do, it's going to be difficult to make the kind of social progress that will be necessary to make this country great again.

chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 10-29-2010).]

What the hell happened. I was trying to get a slant on how and if keyboard manufacturers were going to survive with the new tax hikes, and the thread quickly turned into a political and racial football. Here's the Kiplinger letter I received. Read it for yourselves, then you'll understand my concern for small business owners, a category which those of us that perform for a living fit into.


This came from the Senior Tax Editor for Kiplinger Letters

Subject: This Will be Difficult For All of Us



In just three months, on January 1, 2011, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect.

They will hit families and small businesses in three great waves.

On January 1, 2011, here's what happens... (read it to the end, so you see all three waves)...


First Wave:


Expiration of 2001 and 2003 Tax Relief

In 2001 and 2003, the GOP Congress enacted several tax cuts for investors, small business owners, and families.

These will all expire on January 1, 2011.


Personal income tax rates will rise.

The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed).

The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent.

All the rates in between will also rise.


Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as highermarginal tax rates.


The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:

The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%


The 25% bracket rises to 28%


The 28% bracket rises to 31%


The 33% bracket rises to 36%


The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Higher taxes on marriage and family.

The "marriage penalty" (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income.

The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child.

The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level.

The dependent care and adoption tax credits will be cut.

The return of the Death Tax.

This year only, there is no death tax. (It's a quirk!) For those dying on or after January 1, 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes, a business, a retirement account, could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones. Think of the farmers who don't make much money, but their land, which they purchased years ago with after-tax dollars, is now worth a lot of money. Their children will have to sell the farm, which may be their livelihood, just to pay the estate tax if they don't have the cash sitting around to pay the tax. Think about your own family's assets. Maybe your family owns real estate, or a business that doesn't make much money, but the building and equipment are worth $1 million. Upon their death, you can inherit the $1 million business tax free, but if they own a home, stock, cash worth $500K on top of the $1 million business, then you will owe the government $275,000 cash! That's 55% of the value of the assets over $1 million! Do you have that kind of cash sitting around waiting to pay the estate tax?


Higher tax rates on savers and investors.

The capital gains tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 20 percent in 2011.

The dividends tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 39.6 percent in 2011.

These rates will rise another 3.8 percent in 2013.

Second Wave:

Obamacare

There are over twenty new or higher taxes in Obamacare. Several will first go into effect on January 1, 2011. They include:

The "Medicine Cabinet Tax"

Thanks to Obamacare, Americans will no longer be able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin).


The "Special Needs Kids Tax"

This provision of Obamacare imposes a cap on flexible spending accounts (FSAs) of $2500 (Currently, there is no federal government limit). There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children.

There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education.

Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, DC (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year.

Under tax rules, FSA dollars can not be used to pay for this type of special needs education.


The HSA (Health Savings Account) Withdrawal Tax Hike.

This provision of Obamacare increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

Third Wave:

The Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) and Employer Tax Hikes

When Americans prepare to file their tax returns in January of 2011, they'll be in for a nasty surprise-the AMT won't be held harmless, and many tax relief provisions will have expired.

The major items include:

The AMT will ensnare over 28 million families, up from 4 million last year.

According to the left-leaning Tax Policy Center, Congress' failure to index the AMT will lead to an explosion of AMT taxpaying families-rising from 4 million last year to 28.5 million. These families will have to calculate their tax burdens twice, and pay taxes at the higher level. The AMT wascreated in 1969 to ensnare a handful of taxpayers.

Small business expensing will be slashed and 50% expensing will disappear.

Small businesses can normally expense (rather than slowly-deduct, or "depreciate") equipment purchases up to $250,000.

This will be cut all the way down to $25,000. Larger businesses can currently expense half of their purchases of equipment.

In January of 2011, all of it will have to be "depreciated."

Taxes will be raised on all types of businesses.

There are literally scores of tax hikes on business that will take place. The biggest is the loss of the "research and experimentation tax credit," but there are many, many others. Combining high marginal tax rates with the loss of this tax relief will cost jobs.

Tax Benefits for Education and Teaching Reduced.

The deduction for tuition and fees will not be available.

Tax credits for education will be limited.

Teachers will no longer be able to deduct classroom expenses.

Coverdell Education Savings Accounts will be cut.

Employer-provided educational assistance is curtailed.

The student loan interest deduction will be disallowed for hundreds of thousands of families.

Charitable Contributions from IRAs no longer allowed.

Under current law, a retired person with an IRA can contribute up to $100,000 per year directly to a charity from their IRA.

This contribution also counts toward an annual "required minimum distribution." This ability will no longer be there.

And worse yet?

Now, your insurance will be INCOME on your W2's!

One of the surprises we'll find come next year, is what follows - - a little "surprise" that 99% of us had no idea was included in the "new and improved" healthcare legislation . . . the dupes, er, dopes, who backed this administration will be astonished!

Starting in 2011, (next year folks), your W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company. It does not matter if that's a private concern or governmental body of some sort.

If you're retired? So what... your gross will go up by the amount of insurance you get.

You will be required to pay taxes on a large sum of money that you have never seen. Take your tax form you just finished and see what $15,000 or $20,000 additional gross does to your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year.

For many, it also puts you into a new higher bracket so it's even worse.

This is how the government is going to buy insurance for the 15% that don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases.

Not believing this??? Here is a research of the summaries.....

On page 25 of 29: TITLE IX REVENUE PROVISIONS- SUBTITLE A: REVENUE OFFSET PROVISIONS-(sec. 9001, as modified by sec. 10901) Sec.9002 "requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee the aggregate cost of applicable employer sponsored group health coverage that is excludable from the employees gross income."

- Joan Pryde is the senior tax editor for the Kiplinger letters.
- Go to Kiplingers and read about 13 tax changes that could affect you. Number 3 is what is above.

Gary

Whatever I think about our President, the fact that he is partially Black has nothing to do with it, and I am personally insulted to be accused of it. It is utter bullshit. I DID respect you Chas, but no longer.
DonM

Nigel the lock please .

I don't care if he is green...his policies and agenda has put the United States of America in a direction that is NOT what this country is all about and he is a train wreck.

Lee S.

Hi

- or the bin.
This is NOT a discussion gruop obout US politics!

Jørgen

------------------
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Perfect example of why politics and religion should be avoided in music forum discussions.

Don I agree with you.....I also hope Nigel totaly deletes this topic fast....no need for it !!

No, not quite...

Its only 55% on those estates worth more than 3 Million dollars...and after you've exhausted all the exemptions a person/business may qualify for. Further, the first million is exempt...

We can debate whether the death tax is a good thing or not, but the statement in that letter is factually wrong.

The tax rates per UCC Code 26:

The tentative tax is based on the tentative tax base, which is the sum of the taxable estate and the "adjusted taxable gifts" (i.e., taxable gifts made after 1976). The federal estate tax is repealed for one year in 2010 and will return to 2001 rates and rules in 2011. For decedents dying after December 31, 2010, the tentative tax will be calculated by applying the following tax rates[19]:

For amounts not greater than $10,000, the tax liability is 18% of the amount.
For amounts over $10,000 but not over $20,000, the tentative tax is $1,800 plus 20% of the excess over $10,000.
For amounts over $20,000 but not over $40,000, the tentative tax is $3,800 plus 22% of the excess over $20,000.
For amounts over $40,000 but not over $60,000, the tentative tax is $8,200 plus 24% of the excess over $40,000.
For amounts over $60,000 but not over $80,000, the tentative tax is $13,000 plus 26% of the excess over $60,000.
For amounts over $80,000 but not over $100,000, the tentative tax is $18,200 plus 28% of the excess over $80,000.
For amounts over $100,000 but not over $150,000, the tentative tax is $23,800 plus 30% of the excess over $100,000.
For amounts over $150,000 but not over $250,000, the tentative tax is $38,800 plus 32% of the excess over $150,000.
For amounts over $250,000 but not over $500,000, the tentative tax is $70,800 plus 34% of the excess over $250,000.
For amounts over $500,000 but not over $750,000, the tentative tax is $155,800 plus 37% of the excess over $500,000.
For amounts over $750,000 but not over $1,000,000, the tentative tax is $248,300 plus 39% of the excess over $750,000.
For amounts over $1,000,000 but not over $1,250,000, the tentative tax is $345,800 plus 41% of the excess over $1,000,000.
For amounts over $1,250,000 but not over $1,500,000, the tentative tax is $448,300 plus 43% of the excess over $1,250,000.
For amounts over $1,500,000 but not over $2,000,000, the tentative tax is $555,800 plus 45% of the excess over $1,500,000.
For amounts over $2,000,000 but not over $2,500,000, the tentative tax is $780,800 plus 49% of the excess over $2,000,000.
For amounts over $2,500,000 but not over $3,000,000, the tentative tax is $1,025,800 plus 53% of the excess over $2,500,000.
For amounts over $3,000,000, the tentative tax is $1,290,800 plus 55% of the excess over $3,000,000.

Although the above tax table looks like a system of progressive tax rates, there is in 2011 a unified credit against the tentative tax which effectively eliminates any tax on the first $1,000,000 of the estate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_tax#The_.22Death_Tax.22_neologism



Once again, wrong as wrong can be. You can't get your info from a chain email or ill-informed professionals.

Everybody take a chill pill. They sky isn't falling, I promise.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=228881,00.html (I actually called the IRS, it took me 7 minutes to find out this was factually wrong.)

http://factcheck.org/2010/05/health-care-law-and-w-2-forms/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/hr3590.asp

Its NOT taxable income, period. NOTE: Some "cadillac plans, whose plan value is upwards of 25K a year (the average family of 4 policy is about 14K, so we're talking twice as much...)MAY be taxed at the amounts beyond the average, but there are exemptions for high risk professions like fire fighters and police, etc...

Retirees are most certainly NOT going to pay taxes on it.


------------------
Bill in Dayton


[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 10-29-2010).]

Gary-

This is the actual article from Kiplinger:
http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresourc...e-way.html?si=1

Here's #3 from the actual Kiplinger's website:

"3. A requirement that businesses include the value of the health care benefits they provide to employees on W-2s. Although this was originally required beginning with W-2s for 2011 – those issued early in 2012 – in October, a one-year delay was announced. Employers may voluntarily report the value of health benefits they provide on 2011 W-2s, but this will not be mandatory until the 2012 forms. The amount reported is not considered taxable income."


It seems far less doom and gloom than the one you posted.

Did you get your article in the form of an email by chance? Can't trust those buddy...

------------------
Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 10-29-2010).]

Bill,

From what I was led to believe, and some of your statement tends to lean in that direction, is that in 2012 health insurance paid by the employer, WILL be considered taxable income. Currently, it is NOT. But, this, like most taxes, is subject to change. Only time will tell. I won't hold my breath on any of this, and as I stated earlier, the small businesses will be slammed until they're out of business.

Gotta' go to work (while I still have work.)

Gary

The reporting was the only thing put off until 2012. It was moved a year ahead to allow businesses more time to allow for the accurate reporting of the "value" of the health insurance. Its mostly there to provide consumers with a value of their health insurance (not always the same thing as the cost of the plan) and also a way for the Gov't. to see that businesses, where applicable, are in fact providing competitive health insurance plans to their employees.

What they "might do" someday is a far cry from what the original letter suggested.

Seriously though-don't take my word for it-Call the IRS yourself and have a conversation.

Telephone Assistance for Individuals:
Toll-Free, 1-800-829-1040
Hours of Operation: Monday – Friday, 7:00 a.m. – 10:00 p.m. your local time (Alaska & Hawaii follow Pacific Time).

Telephone Assistance for Businesses:
Toll-Free, 1-800-829-4933
Hours of Operation: Monday – Friday, 7:00 a.m. – 10:00 p.m. your local time (Alaska & Hawaii follow Pacific Time).


------------------
Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 10-29-2010).]

Well Don, I'm not going to stop respecting you because you happen to disagree with me. But I would like to point out a couple of things. First nobody is "partially Black" in America. You either are or you aren't. Nobody is 'partially' discriminated against, nobody is 'partially' lynched. I never accused you specifically of anything, so I'm not sure why you chose to react so strongly. I think that it IS interesting, though, that although a majority of Americans elected him to office, the overwhelming majority of people on THIS BOARD see him as the anti-Christ.

I remember (very vividly) your friend Bill (Semi-live) expressing some misgivings about his feelings about this very topic (and this was NOT at 'The Bar'). He spoke eloquently (in my view) and openly about the societal attitudes he saw all around him and his own struggle not to fall victim to the same attitudes. It was the most refreshingly honest (and hopeful) thing I've ever read on Synthzone. I know he's a sensitive guy (most songwriters are) and so I hope what I've said here doesn't upset or embarrass him.

I'm sorry that my post caused you to so abruptly change your opinion of me. I assure you that I, myself, have not changed (maybe softened a bit in my old age and deteriorating health). I still champion most progressive causes (but don't hate the people who don't share my ideology).

I have always admired your humor, intellect, diplomatic approach to most discussions, and your musical talent. I really believe that in a different time and under different circumstances, we would have been friends.

chas

Guys ..I don't see any bad blood here...a few remarks may have giving the wrong impressions coupled with obstacles in our paths...health, loss of friends etc..it adds up and sometimes emotions come out that are not representation of who we are...and also are wrongly interpreted...

Don is the same great guy he was yesterday..far from being a racist..

Chas, he is the same "old" guy he was yesterday...and possibly has a feel for what he thinks is racist remarks..

BTW: I did not read either in the post..


In the end ..Don is the better performer..at least he can sing..

Thanks Fran. I think your reading of this is pretty accurate. Guess you aren't too bad for an old "700 level" guy (only Fran and Philly guys will know what this means ). ......and stop calling me "old". I prefer 'seasoned'.

chas

Maybe I over-reacted Chas. It just seemed like you were saying that any criticism of the President has to be because he is Black, which to me makes YOU the racist. Anyone who knows me will know that I am certainly not a racist.
I strongly disagree with many of the things our President has, or is trying to, put into effect. I also disagreed with a lot of thing that the previous President did. It certainly wasn't because of his color and neither is it now.
I apologize to you. You are a talented and well-spoken person. I would not have known, or cared, what color you were, but you have always been pretty quick to bring it up.
I agree to agree to disagree. I suggest we keep making music and leave the political topics to a more appropriate venue.
As for Bill, as he mentioned, he was raised in an environment where just about everyone was racist. He has grown way past all that. I came from a different State and upbringing where Native Americans (my heritage) were often discriminated against so I didn't have an adverse opinion of anybody, unless it was based on their behavior, not color of skin. Down here in Louisiana, the vast majority of violence is done by Black people, and the vast majority of the victims are also Black people. Shreveport has a Black Mayor, Cedric Glover, who is a personal friend of mine and he is probably the best thing that has happened to the city in generations.
My point is only that I disagree with the President and could care less what color he is. (I would like to see his birth certificate though.)
DonM

Sorry Gary...but indirectly all these posts are relavent to your post.
Taxes are a political subject.
Lee S.

No apology necessary, Don. Your response was probably no more 'knee-jerk' than my own. I still believe that there is a lot of truth in my post and so my antennae is probably unusually sensitive. Hey, Capt. Russ holds you in very high regard and since he seems to like me too, I have to assume that he is an excellent judge of character . Yep, let's get back to making music.

chas

Lee,

I had absolutely no intention to bring politics into the discussion. I deplore politicians, all politicians, despite the face that I have performed at dozens of fund raisers for them during the campaign seasons. The main reason behind the post was to try to examine the economics of this industry and determine which manufacturer will still be here five years from now. Everything seems to have gone south from that point. Now I wish I hadn't brought the subject up, and from the way all posts seem to be going lately, I think it's time to use my computer for doing what I bought if for originally--creating invoices, bookkeeping, doing my taxes and creating advertising media. Guess it's time to join the ranks of the lurkers.

Cheers,

Gary

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Gary,
Yep...I think you are right...I wish they all went away and we could have business people run the government, accountable to US.
Lee S.

If the goal of the US Gov't. was to show a profit, I'd agree with you..



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Bill in Dayton

I'd be happy if the goal was to just break even and take care of what govrnment should take care of...and they are not doing it.
I want no socialism here. I'm not alone, I think you will see that next Tuesday.
Lee S.

1,2,Cha,cha,cha

Well ........ never mind. This is not the way I wanted to chime in today. Sigh.

Nice to see you're upset by taxrates.

Pay taxes are something we know a lot about in Norway.
If you need a car, fill some gasoline, if you happen to buy tobacco/sigarettes or want a bottle
of wine, liqour or beer, well then get ready to emty your bankaccount!

We pay taxes of our income, low/mid income aprox 25 - 30% and it increase as the income increase.
Also pay extra tax when own properties like houses and ground etc.

Welcome to the club guys, but og course, the taxes also gain some sosial welfare and goodies if you
live long enough to need any ...........

Cheers
GJ


Btw.

Example carprices and taxes:

Chrysler Voyager 2.4 SE N.Kr 466.000,- (US$ 77667) (Taxes N.Kr. 287.000,- / US$ 47834) Taxes = 62%
Average tax when buy a car is aprox 50%.

Gasoline N.Kr 12,- pr. litre = US$ 2 (taxes aprox N.Kr 7,50 = US$ 1.20)

Also we have to pay a yearly luxurytax just to own a car, and a lot of roads we drive along have taxes
every time we pass certain roadpoints.

If we happen to save some of our money in the bank, we have to pay taxes of that as well, and when we
lay down and die and the kids happen to get what's left in our bankaccount etc, they have to pay taxes
of that as well........

Let's slide this discussion over to the bar, shall we? I'll respond to your post over there...



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Bill in Dayton

Now thats a great post Dave .... Thank you

Bill before you run to the bar ....I'll ask again how do you like your new R&R cart?

When/where did you ask the first time?

I like it...it holds just as much, moves more easily and is noticeably lighter. I got the R10...so far, I'm very satisfied...

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Bill in Dayton