Don't you see that its the STYLES that make all the difference....now this is where the problem is...even if they made more so called modern styles only four variations of each isn't enough to create songs the right way to your liking...the inevitable has to eventually happen with the merging of the WORKSTATION with the ability to make music & styles from scratch track by track & ARRANGER ease of use so that anyone can create music for ANY AGE easily.....ANYWAY YOU WANT all in one unit. Until then get ready to layout money for every so called new rehash unit over and over again.

You can make at least 8 variations in a song using the registration memory.

I also suspect that future arrangers will have more than the 4 variation + 3 intro/ending they have now.

Remember, not that long ago, arrangers had only two variations/style...it's not hard to imagine there will be more advanced styles in the future that handle much more.

Also, consider that what is being sold today for entertainment is vastly different than what was being marketed only five years ago...things like Guitar Hero, and other music games are far more popular to kids who mostly want "instant gratification"...I-pod, and I-pad musical apps are being introduced seemingly every day...what will kids buy in the future? Will it even have keys?

Ian





[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-27-2010).]

Ian all good points variations & styles DO NOT fit into what the kids are listening to today ....why?.....because they were NOT produced on an arranger keyboard!!! so how to you reproduce it with repetitiousness style variations, tempo changes, rap & hiphop beats, etc, etc, .....but if the player was able to EASILY make style tracks customized to a certain song the way they like there might be a chance... then again I would assume many just want the easy way out and have the manufacturer dictate what you will play and how your music sounds......funny thing is they know this and know how to manipulate the public keep them separated in two camps and beyond which increases sales.....MORE CHOICES means MORE MONEY IN THEIR POCKET......the New Motif XF almost has it right....just please include full style creation also & you would have a killer arranger/workstation KB. Now that's what people should be complaining about and writing their letters too...plus they are so much less money then a TOTL arranger?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8A6cvkoyH0&feature=channel

watch this XF demo from 11:00 this is what our styles should sound like.

But unfortunately they never will. What you heard was a good production, constructed track by track, from a guy who not only can play, but has that intangible called taste, in other words, he knows what sounds good together. You can have the best styles in the world, but if you don't know what sounds good, or how to put them together to form a cohesive production, then they (styles) are of little use. There is still that little thing called talent that needs to be present.

Donny, just as you have said that the best harmonizer/pitch correction/vocal processor in the world isn't going to make you a good singer if you stink to begin with (paraphrase), the same thing holds true for an arranger player with an arranger packed with good styles. This is one of those rare times I agree with you . Like you said, there are no 'magic bullets'....

If you want to make yourself into a better musician, you have to change your mindset. You can't sit around waiting for that next generation of arranger to do it for you; you have to do it the old fashioned way, you have to earn it. You want to wish for something? Wish for better sounds, for better articulation of the way the keyboard produces the sound. Wish for a better key feel. Wish for a more intuitive OS. Heck, even wish for a better price and better after sale service. Just stop wishing for better styles. The guy in the video didn't have any.

JMO, of course.

chas

Chas, I'm at this point actually happy with Yamaha styles & sounds to a point where I'd say how much better will it ever get & why ?...I'd be happy if they never made anymore at all no need for it now.......
I would however be allot happier if they would now work on what players need regarding DESIGN, NAVIGATION, and all physical attribute features that really needs to be addressed & implemented asap in future models..starting with a much bigger display, sliders, knobs, inputs, separate, simultaneous play-modes & more pro features.

Happy New Year

thank God donny the thread has steered away from your topic. Its not about supposedly yamaha taking down anybody. Your initial topic is still nonsense. You nor anyone can demonstrate in anyway that yamaha's strategy has caused the demise of any other manufacturers sales or their decision not to compete in th arranger market. And this topic has still flown close to a pissing contest. Luckily the posters have been very diplomatic and hopefully that will continue.

Ian,
Who buys the entry level...not the 25 year olds we are talking about here..not the serious young arranger players. Just go to Youtube.

The 7 year olds as a toy...maybe the 70 year olds as a toy. (My 68 year old friend just got a E-323 that I helped him pick out, because he always wanted to play a keyboard)

I'm talking PSR E213's etc.

Lee S.

Rarely have I seen a 7 year old with an E-323...I have seen teenagers, which is what I think Casio and Yamaha are aiming at with these instruments.

Remember, these companies also sell entry level "piano-based" arrangers like the Piaggero,DGX, and PSR-E series, and CTK, WK, Privia etc ,......these instruments have arpeggiators and built in sequencers, and styles and pitch wheels, analog type (filter/attack/release) synth controls...

Korg doesn't sell anything in this price range with these features...Roland attempted to break in with some product, but Casio and Yamaha rule the roost in this segment.

90% of the pros buy Workstations, and Yamaha competes extremely well in that area with the Motif, as does Korg.

Compared to Yamaha, Korg has a very small line-up of keyboards...they don't have entry-level PSR type arrangers, they don't have high-end (and entry-level) piano-based arrangers like the DGX and CVP-series.

Contrast them and we see both companies targeting specific (and in some cases, different) markets with their high end arrangers.

So, these companies obviously have different strategies (and quite likely, will need different strategies)...BOTH are very successful, both make excellent products for the segments they cover.

So, is one "better" than the other?

Nah! They are just different.

Ian

A friend of mine uses a PSR-E413 in his recording studio...it sits in with some pretty high end synthesizers.

He loves the E413's synth controls and arpeggiator, and, it is an instrument that gets used quite often.

Sure, the sound quality may not be ultra-pristine, but that's actually why he uses it, as it gives a nice edge to his work.

He also borrows my Yamaha CS01 analog mono-synth, which has mini-keys, and looks like a toy.

However, it doesn't sound like one (it uses the same oscillator as the monster CS-80) and is in high demand on the second-hand market.

Remember in the 80's when a lot of "synth pop" groups were using low-end Casio instruments?

We are only limited, not by the instruments, but by our imagination.

Ian

Don't know about that, I can imagine quite a few things the Tyros 4 doesn't have that I and millions of other people use every day around the world.

The Tyros doesn't even have a proper Sequencer, let alone a sampler, full midi implementation, or even a sound engine that can access all it's own functions.

I'm almost tempted to start throwing around the terms Home Arranger VS Pro Arranger and comparing.