Hi All

I am looking for some help on behalf of a friend who has a Tyros 1.

He is trying to control an outboard harmoniser with the Tyros over midi (I know there is an inbuilt one, but he doesn't like it). Normally, this would be easy to do by setting the harmoniser to receive on the same channel that the tyros sends out its LH part i.e. channel 4. This works fine, as expected.

The complication comes in as my friend always uses the Tyros in single-finger-chord mode. This confuses the outboard device as the notes used to create minor and seventh chords in the single-finger-mode are still interpreted as being conventional played notes by the harmoniser. The intervals between the notes in the Yamaha single finger system often means that the Tyros may be playing a minor chord when the harmoniser thinks you want a seventh, for example. Again this is pretty much what you would expect.

I am trying to help him solve this one by patching the harmoniser to respond one of the style chord tracks. However, my friend is convinced he has seen a store demonstration of a Tyros set up with some kind of outboard harmoniser, where the harmoniser was responding correctly to played single finger chords. This suggests that there may be some way of getting the Tyros to send out true chord data even in single finger mode.

Unfortunately the store where my friend saw the demo has since closed, so he can't ask them about this. He is very non-technical and I am not at all familiar with the Tyros, so it's like the blind leading the blind. Also, we don't live near each other, so I am trying to help him over the phone without the kit in front of me.

Anyone out there got any ideas which might help?

Thanks in advance - Mike

[This message has been edited by MikeTV (edited 05-11-2006).]

I'm not aware of any external harmonizer which recognizes Yamaha System exclusive .XF Chord data, so in order for an external harmonizer to recognize 'single notes' sent to it from any keyboard (in this case Tyros1), it must support "VOCODER" mode. Most external vocal harmonizers I know include this feature, so setting the external harmonizer to vocoder mode should hopefully provide the solution. Good luck. - Scott

Hi Scott

Thanks for that. This particular harmoniser has loads of preset harmony types, amongst which are some "Vocoder" types. These respond by reproducing exactly those notes which the machine is fed with, rather than producing a generic 5 part harmony (or whatever) based on a recognised chord being received, which would be the case for the "Non-Vocoder" presets.

I think I might need you to elaborate a little, as I'm not quite sure how this would help. The fundamental problem I'm trying to solve is caused by this particular player's use of single finger chording, rather than a lack of communication between the two devices.

As an example, to play a C minor chord using single finger, the Tyros expects a C and the next lower Bb to be played. The harmoniser, not unreasonably, translates this as meaning C7 if fed from midi channel 4 (the LH keys). In "vocoder" mode, it would just provide two harmony voices - the C and the Bb - again implying a C7.

If I were to use a "Vocoder" setting, which Tyros part (i.e. midi channel) would you suggest might be good to drive it with?

Again - thanks in advance for any advice. Mike

[This message has been edited by MikeTV (edited 05-11-2006).]

Mike - I think you are flogging a dead horse here - The one finger function is used by the keyboard to trigger the auto-accompaniment. I don't know of any make of keyboard including Yamaha that transmits anything out of midi out other that what is actually played.

If your friend has a TC Helicon there is a mode that can be used where you pre-program the chords beforehand and then use a foot pedal to progressively change these. However - If he uses only one finger chords this may be too much to do all at once.

It's probably best to learn the chords. If you want to play a minor seventh in on finger chord mode he is playing three notes anyway!

Best o luck in your quest.

KF

Hi KF

Thanks for this. You are confirming my suspicions. The harmoniser is not a TC unit, but has the same functionality that you describe, so I understand what you mean.

I was hoping that the Tyros had some sort of facility for outputing the notes of the chords it had interpreted in single finger mode, but I suspect it may not.

Regards - Mike

Mike not sure if you have solved your problem yet but here is what I would try...
Activate the LEFT voice on the Tyros, something with sustain like Organ or Strings. Now when you play single-finger chords the Tyros will output 3- and 4- note triads on MIDI channel 2 which should be recognized by the vocalizer.

If you don't want to *hear* the LH voice, just turn down the volume on that track.

For most styles the Pad and some other channels should contain useful chord data:
11- Bass
12- Chord 1
13- Chord 2
14- Pad
The pad pretty much just plays a sustained chord.

Give it a try, let us know if this works. Note I have a PSR-3000 so the channels might be different, but I doubt it.

Ted Sowirka

Hi Ted - Thanks for that.

Just before your posting, we had a good few hours experimenting much along these lines. Results were:

- Using LH and reading Ch 2 output in single finger mode. This doesn't work as the Tyros outputs the physical notes that are keyed by the player, rather than the eventual chord that the single finger intelligence produces. It goes wrong where the two notes required to produce a minor (say C and Bb for a C minor) are not unreasonably interpreted as a C7 by the harmoniser.

- Ther is a "half way house" fingering setting on the Tyros which recognises true chords when at least three notes are played, but defaults to single finger mode when less than three notes are keyed. This was more successful, but still seemed to require more mental effort from the player to remember which types of chords would need full fingering than would be needed to actually play all the chords properly.

- I was also thinking along the lines of using one of the internal style tracks to derive the chords. This is partially successful. The harmoniser does pick up the output OK, but the results are unpredictable and vary from style to style. If the particular track chosen is playing sustained chords (like a string pad, for example) the results are OK. However, the same track on the next style you pick may have a melodic content. In that case the harmoniser is driven crazy as it tries to follow any melodic phrase. Results are therfore not predictable enough and it isn't a realistic proposition to change midi channels to suit the style all the time.

Net result is that, after much experimenting, my friend has accepted that he needs to put the effort in and learn to use proper chords.

Many thanks for the suggestions from all of you.


Regards - Mike