Hi Guys.

I really need help here to understand why when I have the VSTHOST running and I change from Performance 000 to 001 in order to get access to the VSTi I have saved into that slot do I sometimes loose all sound.

This shouldn't be happening.

Can I also update the VSTHOST ? I noticed it's running on an old version and I'm thinking that might be the cause as the developer mentions tons of bug fixes in the newer version.

Regards
James

did you use VST host on Split-layer key 2 for this?

Makes no difference, it happens there as well as any of the 1 to 8 HOSTs.

Regards
James

maybe this from manual help you:

Here, you can select one of the 129 possible performances in the current bank (see “Use Bank…”
above).
This operation can also be performed by sending a Program Change MIDI message to the Remote
Control Channel, with one exception: performance 000 is a special program; this cannot be selected by
remote operation. Unless Reload Performance is checked on the File menu, VSTHost loads this
performance as its initial setup. This way, you can define a nice default environment.
A performance’s initial name is “** Init **” – not very inventive, I have to admit – and can be
changed if you save it with Save As… (described below).
The Up and Down buttons can be used to reposition the selected performance in the current bank.
Note: this action takes place immediately; it can not be undone by pressing the Cancel button.

http://www.hermannseib.com/documents/VSTHost.pdf

you most save like this:

000. ** Init ** (do not change this)
001. your VST name1
002. your VST name2



[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-07-2010).]

Thanks for your help but I don't believe VSTHOST is the problem at this stage.

Whatever is responsible for routing midi and audio is the cause of the problem. It does not function correctly all the time. Works most of the time, but not all of the time.

Simply starting and stopping the HOST engine is enough to kill whatever is routing the audio on the Meidastation.

Yet I can do whatever I like on my Laptop here with VSTHOST and can't find any problems at all.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 04-07-2010).]

First you need to understand VST HOST. Here you can set first sounds that is open with VST HOST. That one is everytime there as first sound.

I'm using old .wine So I set all this stuff long time. Now I'm updating system only when I need some new VST.

Program change is working well. Only some VST are not supporting program change. For this you can change them with VST HOST.

New version can have some issues, but with old .wine you can play a lot of VSTs. If you have troubles you can ask DOM for it.

Hi Magica Alfa.

I know how VSTHOST works and that's not the problem as I've already mentioned.

Try this for example......
Load any VSTi you like and click on this icon to stop the Engine, and click again to start it again.



This is a 100% guaranteed way to kill all sound coming from, and all midi going to the VSTHOST on my Mediastation.



It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Program Change. I'm 100% confident if this.



So the solution your suggestion is downgrade ? Sorry but that's unacceptable to me. It should work and it's not like I'm trying to load anything unusual. It does not even function right with the plug-ins provided and used in the way they are implemented.

If Wine was the problem, there is no point to the keyboard whatsoever as nobody makes plugins of any interest for Linux.

The cause must be something else. I can't even bootup and go straight into the Organ at times without having problems. Times it works, other times it does not. You can pretty the mini keys on the screen and hear sound at times, but no midi data is even connecting to the plugin at times.

If I don't get a solution to this problem, I can't use the keyboard. I can't work with VSTi's that work most of the time, but not all the time.


Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 04-09-2010).]

Patient, Doc I get a pain in my side when I raise my arm.....

Doc, well don't raise your arm....


James, the VST stops when I click on the stop engine tab..

Dom, James,stop clicking on the stop engine tab....

Makes sense to me...

James
Now I have undertstand what you mean..
question: why you need to turn OFF the Vsthost engine??
When you turn OFF the engine, automatically the audio/midi connection will be lost from Jack, if you run again, then you have to reconect all manually.
The OS script work only on this way:
1) you press the Vst/host MS key ( or one of the 8 asio patch, B4)
2) the OS run the filehost.exe Path and will make automatically: open with .wine
3) the .exe host start up under wine.
4) when the OS see available under the Jack connection the audio/midi port, the script will automatically connect the ASIO.exe audio jack on the FX Sever audio IN and also connecting the midi port to the keyboard.

IF you then turn OFF the host engine, you lose all and you have to reconect all manually.
Is better that you QUIT the host and then you press again the same MS ASIO patch, will run up automatically the host again.
Same way for the B4II standalone version or for the all standalone application.

The OS do NOT know IF you have turn OFF the engine or not, when the first time is up, the automatic scipt will not recalled again.
IF where NOT programmed on this way, every time that you switch engine, will open again a new Host and then you will have 10-100 same ASIO host running.

understand?

Anyway, I made a new test too and I will release on the new OS 4.2.
Download the new VstHost 1.47 double precision 32/64bit and replace the OLD vsthost.exe file with this new one.
NOTE: MUST have the SAME name file or the script will not run up!
Seem now really FAST, but better that you test too.
cheers

please if you update the O.S 4.1 to 4.2 include the new version qranger to. the one we have now on iso 4.1 is qranger_4.3+svn1830-1_i386


now the kubuntu is Kubuntu 10.04 LTS Beta 2 stage soon we get final kubuntu, so the kubuntu team are very fast.

domenico made very good decision to use kubuntu for MS O.S.


[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-09-2010).]

one more good news:

this time from yellow tools:
http://www.yellowtools.us/cp21/cms/index.php?id=842

Hi Domenico.
I think you and others are misunderstanding the severity of the problem and how it can crash the entire system. Not starting and stopping the host, but just by selecting a sound to play.

Here's a streaming video I just recorded.
http://www.irishacts.com/lionstracs/vsti.html

Regards
James

tested here but no problem, if i press split-layer 2 key i press here after DSP key!

or maybe i do something wrong!!!!!!!!!!

maybe something wrong in you home folder?

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-09-2010).]

Hi AFG Music.



Are you running OS 4.1 ?



Very unlikely. I did a full format when installing OS 4.1 so everything is very fresh and done by the book. No mistakes.

Regards
James

here O.S 4.1 with basic giga library-.win folder .deb installed.

maybe i do something wrong, i do not know!!!!!

did you installed some new VST?

only when i press key 2 split-layer i press here after DSP key!!!!!!! thats is the only different from your video

thanks and regards

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-09-2010).]

mmmm..I think you are right.
I try to reproduce your same step and sometime happen here too.
I have update the vstHost 1.47 double precision32/64bit and happen much less.
IF you give some time for the changes, the vsthost work a little bit better, seem like that the CPU when change VST go in overload for some ms.
When vst host hang and you lost signal, touch on bottom the Wine TAB, for select the second windows:

do you get the same vsthost error message?
When this happen of course wineasio hang the system too.
I have press the OK and then run again the vsthost and work again.
Honestly I have to ask to debug for see where is the bug side.
Here also the new VstHost for test: http://www.lionstracs.com/download/update/vsthost147.rar
extract and replace with the old vsthost.exe on the main location:
usr/mediastation/current/bin/vsthost/vsthost.exe

I will report this bug to Hermann too.
let me know

ah..another note HOW to change sounds..
on your video, after you have loaded one VSTi, you change the desktops and then you change the program change sounds...wrong and HARD way.

How the OS system work:
1) Layer 2= Vst Host mode, will recall the VSTi presets.
2) when you press VSTHOST, the GUI display the program Patch of the VstHost ( session slots). We have organized on 10 Banks ( keys: Piano, E.Piano, guitar...)
Each Family Bank can store Up to 127 session Patch VSTi.
So...on this main VST patch you select/Load the desidered VSTi ( you have first to load manually on VstHost interface Patch and then SAVE)
) after you have load one VST Patch ( like superwaveP8), press the MS key: DSP
DSP key:; one time pressed wil display the VstHost interface, press again and will display the MS GUI with the all program changes.
Now, with the all 6+6 keys around the display, you can change the sounds and every time you switch engine and return to VstHost, you have again the same last sound.
Press again the Layer 2= VSTHOST for change VSTi, then again the DSP key for change sounds/Interface.

that's is the way

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-09-2010).]

James, if you need to shown some GUI shoots, you can use the Screen grabbing program, located: KDE>Program>Graphics> Screen grabbing program.

Hi Domenico.



Yes, but only in version 1.47
I installed it earlier today into ASIO 1 after you mentioned I just needed to make sure the exe was named the same.

In the older version the system just locks up so I will be installing 1.47 throughout the keyboard tomorrow. It's the lesser of two evils at the moment because after it crashes I can at least launch it again unlike the older 1.45 version which just hangs the system.



Thank you.

Regards
James

Thanks for the tip.
I look forward to trying that out in the morning.

Cheers
James

James I think the above way will solve your problem..

Hi Fran.

No, that won't solve anything.
How I select sounds has nothing to do with the problem. It's simply one method I've used to demonstrate there is a problem. I can expose the bug many other ways too.

For example, if you wanted to assign some plugins to different performances in VSTHOST, there is only one way to do this and one way only. Simply operating this function can cause the sound to be disconnected for no known reason.

Regards
James

I think I have found the problem..
Is the new wine version that we have included from OS 4.0, that have the memory leak issue. http://www.winehq.org/announce/1.1.42
here seem that they have fixed.
I will ask 64studio to compile and make a debian package for testing.
The fact, how zmago told before, the much older version of wine support much better the Vsthost and installer.
I have to make some test with new version.

Excellent...!!!!!
I hope your tests go well too.

If you need a hand with testing just let me know. I'm not using the keyboard on stage yet so at this moment in time I don't mind running untested software.

Regards
James

Problems like this will allways be a pain on these open systems...

Thats why i can only advise people that use an open arranger like this live on stage, not to get the latest Software version untill all/most faults have been discovered by home and studio users.

Obviously Lionstracs can't help all of these faults now and in the future because it would simply be to much testing involved to do in house.

Mind that this doesn't make open systems a bad idea... it just takes another approach as a software update could kill a feature that you really like..

But then i would not install OS4 if i had an Audya that i needed onstage for a few months either. But then Audya builds all of its own software, where mediastation uses a lot of 3rd party software and that makes this problem a major concern every time they update OS.

Tough as long as Dom keeps listening to the players and takes every problem reported seriously, then Lionstracs will be a great system.... But then since 80% of all reported failures are operature faults, and Dom does have not time to investigate all these problems too, it will be very important for Dom to sepperate the real problems from the operator faults.
This is no problem when Dom can reproduce a reported fault... but how about those faults that Dom can't reproduce...


All in all, there is a lot of work to be done for Lionstracs to keep the mediastation on the current level or improve the level while adding new features...

but remember one thing. There are many programers who fix bugs in Linux open source world.
even the smallest bug that not crashes the system or does not make the system unstable or gets attention, and is no time fixed.

any software, even if rock stable. contain bugs. In a closed system, you risk that bugs never improved. lionstracs late 2008, started programming of new modern OS system. They are now almost in its final phase. look at kubuntu devolpment: http://www.kubuntu.org/news

if this is done you are more than 15 years guaranteed good working system.

most programers do their VST for Windows xp and later. This is make it user friendly. 64 bit systems have long been for sale but they make still 32bit programs. You have many studios who still use old PC or Mac with old O.S and other old hardware.

sorry but you can not compare an open OS system with a closed one.

it is well known that open source software more stable and better and safer than ordinary software. there are bugs in software of closed keyboard. but because they do not crash the system or not discovered by user are not fixed. if anyone ever finds out is late because the product is no longer supported after 2 or 3 years.

another difference of open system is always going forward and not backward, especially with software. but with closed keyboard you get the keyboard as if the manufacturer wants. you have no freedom with hardware and software.


[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-11-2010).]

The problem here is a little different.
We have a team here that develope ONLY the LIONSTRACS OS application and then the 64studio.com team from UK build the final package into the kubuntu distribution.

we still develope here with the FIST Kubuntu 9.10 release, because we can not every time format the HD and install again the compiler tools and 1300 Mb of source code.

It mean that on my own developement groove I have a old Kubuntu OS and every time that 64studio update, will also update TON of new linux drivers.
This difference happen always with Wine, Jack, Audio codecs and so on..every time about 200-400 new update drivers.
For that then in my Groove developemet board and christian board the OS work and then on new OS update some stuff are not working.
From the old OS 3.x debian to OS 4.x Kubuntu 9.10 all is changed and for sure I lost some test pass...to MANY features to test every time.
This week we start to fix again the bugs, but I'm sure that soon on new Kubuntu 10.04 come out new bugs again.

I prefer to have some bugs around but have always a more stable and fast Linux OS, than stopping the Linux OS and then not have the possibility to use the new hardware.
Important is continue always on the developement and stay always one step head from the others.

Everyone can have bugs...look right now my webserver from Theplanet...DOWN!!
Ticket 6539807PLNT was updated
Ticket Summary: Possible Malicious Inbound Traffic to IP - 207.44.158.72 lionstracs.com
Ticket Queue: Technical Support

To much traffic..we get more than 3 milion visit and about 50 attack hakers...
I belive that they can fix asap..all my emails are down too....

Thanks James for persisting with the MS warts and all. Please keep reporting back good or bad

domenico,


on VSTHOST manual page 26 is written:




Here, you can select one of the 129 possible performances in the current bank (see “Use Bank…”
above).
This operation can also be performed by sending a Program Change MIDI message to the Remote
Control Channel, with one exception: performance 000 is a special program; this cannot be selected by
remote operation. Unless Reload Performance is checked on the File menu, VSTHost loads this
performance as its initial setup. This way, you can define a nice default environment.
A performance’s initial name is “** Init **” – not very inventive, I have to admit – and can be
changed if you save it with Save As… (described below).
The Up and Down buttons can be used to reposition the selected performance in the current bank.
Note: this action takes place immediately; it can not be undone by pressing the Cancel button.
http://www.hermannseib.com/documents/VSTHost.pdf

so, when I read i think we most save like this:

vsthost1.exe


000. ** Init ** (do not change this)
001. your VST name1


but on VSTHOSt you have written like this:

vsthost1.exe

000. your VST name1
001. ** Init **

vsthost2.exe

000. your VST name1
001. ** Init **


vsthost3.exe

000. your VST name1
001. ** Init **

and...................


has this no consequences?



[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-22-2010).]

I do not know why you are talking about this so much.

I had set my bank once with asio and all work perfectly and still is. I use simple thing. same sounds I use in COMBI and never direct in ASIO host. Because if you want to play severaly sounds you need combination not onle one sound of combination.

That is for live mode important.

You are right that there are some things wrong in VST HOST and will be always.
Guys are developing it all the time.

Even Famus WIN7 have bugs.

I thing we need to find more and more bugs inside than we will have more and more secure system.

Dom know what I report to him on his forum or mails. Now I know that we make in last years big big progress. So many advantages that no other keyboard is not having.

Even interface is every day more and more developed.

I thing Dom need now stop to developing new things and only clean system with stuff that machine use it in the past.

That will make Lionstracs faster. Even now is taken for big things like 1G of things some sceonds. Sounds from giga or VST we are having onboard any time. That no other competition can not say for their keyboard.

there is no problem.

but it is good, to know good and best way of doing this.

if you read something in the manual and do not understand, you should ask anyway.

sometimes you get problems if you use something wrong in person.

therefore you can ask questions.

Makes me wonder, did this problem get solved wth the new wine version?

still not tested.
Wine developer dont made the update last week, the new one will arrival this friday- http://www.winehq.org/news/2010041601

when they update, I test and include on OS 4.2
we will see..right now I'm to much busy for bugfix and new features.
Step by step..we already made miracle on this update....

I am just amazed by how much better OS 4.x is over the old 3.1.

This new OS is super So any change you are making is just making this better.

I am so glad I went back to my MS.

Thanks Dom

Dennis

I say again, welcome back, lol