As I tip toe through the tulips not wanting to step on any toes as I meekly convey my subdued thoughts so as not to garner any flak from Nigel... lol

BTW, I agree we shouldn't get too argumentative or resort to ad hominem attacks but if we squeeze every drop of subjective narrative out of our opinionated debate(s) from this otherwise excellent discussion forum then what's next? Perhaps a preponderance of trepidation with someone looking over your shoulder fearing the next word you write could be your very last here on the Synth Zone?

Agreed, ad hominem and downright obnoxious behavior should be dealt with accordingly and swiftly and I appreciate Nigel's diligence to run a tidy ship. What I'm concerned about is the "life" being squeezed out of the debate and discussions altogether. If constraints are such that openness and freedom to discuss topics are instead replaced with gestapo like subordination and compliance to a very strict and narrow set of rules the result will tend to be a lack of diversity and opinionated conveyance within the discussions that make for a more casual, friendly, and in most cases, fun experience. I don't mind members telling me their gut feelings or reacting negatively to something I may have done or said even if I may have done so unintentionally. I also don't mind people dissing a keyboard manufacturer's products (or my keyboard, etc.) because in doing so perhaps the manufacturers will wise up and start producing keyboards that consumers really want. Besides, I'm a man, I can take it. Constructive anger can actually be beneficial as we all know too. For example, Fran strongly touts Roland products and has many negative and opinionated views regarding Yamaha arrangers. As a result, I sold my Tyros and bought a Roland workstation and also a Roland module. See how beneficial Fran's negativity turned something into a positive for me? lol

The objective for Nigel would be in trying to weed out the bad from the good i.e. the defamatory and hostile anger from the otherwise constructive debate(s). But if Synth Zone removes all the "emotion" and the "passion" from an otherwise great arranger keyboard resource website then blandness will eventually set in (not by choice obviously) and will have replaced the "liveliness" and the casual atmosphere we've all come to know and enjoy here at the Synth Zone arranger forum.

In conclusion, don't be too heavy handed or the only one's left on Synth Zone will be the drones humming along at a constantly sustained transcendental pitch with all the variances of life sucked out of them as they obediently comply with their heavy handed master looking over their shoulder(s) instilling "fear" in their otherwise 'human' heart(s).

I would like to thank Nigel once again for his constant dedication and hard work in providing this unique and wonderful Forum. And for each and every member on Synth Zone whose diversity of input has in many ways contributed immensely to the furtherance of knowledge along with informative discussion(s) regarding arranger keyboards and other keyboard related products that we love so much, thank you as well. And I would especially like to thank Fran whose constant 'thorn in the side' to Yamaha has in many ways roused us (and me) out of our (and my) complacency and has opened up to us other possibilities for consideration from other manufacturers - and Roland in particular.

And if all of you guys and gals never hear from me again - you'll know why. LOL

All the best,
Mike

Bill, you might be able to run the OS on those older CPU's powering those older Wersi's, but have you honestly tried to run any of the new power hungry VSTi's on those older CPU's?

Every generation of new chips engenders a new generation of VSTis that leverage that power. Without upping your CPU on a fairly regular (3 years or so) basis, you find a large amount of the latest, greatest VSTi's unable to run on your so-called 'future-proofed' arranger.

From doing this on regular computers for 15 years or more, I feel I am in a fair position to comment on this. My slightly aging tower can get pulled to its knees by some of the most modern VST's, and slower throughput architecture can make some of the latest, high bandwidth streaming libraries tough to make work on older MOBO's. If all you throw at it is B4 and a few lightweight VSTi's, then perhaps it is easy to think that you ARE future-proofed. But start to stack up Arturia synth models and things like that, and things get a lot more difficult.

For example, I can name few studio producers that run VSTi suites that don't change out their entire computer every two or three years or so, JUST to be able to run the latest, greatest without bringing the old one to its knees. Some carry on without the change, but they have to give up on many modern VSTi's, or accept VERY low polyphony counts and drop-outs.

If you aren't banging into a hardware ceiling, you just aren't pushing that thing hard enough!

Hi Diki
From a studio standpoint I understand where you are coming from, however it’s rare for keyboard players to go for the latest and greatest (VSTI or Hardware) until they are sure all the bugs have been removed, consequently when they do upgrade the hardware has caught up with the VSTi they wish to use. (Live Play and Studio use are 2 different kettles of fish)

In addition VSTi manufactures as well as making them more powerful, are also making them more efficient so that anybody can use them without having upgrade to the latest and greatest computer. (If the user doesn’t have to buy a new computer, he will probably buy the new VSTi instead, thus making the manufacture more profit)

As an example, Pianoteq uses sound modelling which theoretically should really task the CPU, (Early versions did) but I have used the latest version on a 3 GHZ P4 with 2 GB Ram with a combination of styles, sequences and manuals simultaneously, (As well as adding in OAS and Kontakt 4 sounds to the mix) with no problems at all.

If you also look at the optimum computer specification requirements of the VSTi you mention, you will find it is way below what the latest and greatest computer systems use. (If you want the best performance go for a gaming machine (Although you can cut back on the graphics card) and then set it up for music)

As you can see from the above, while you could run into problems in the studio (Hence a lot of the big studios network there computers to spread the load) it’s unlikely in live play. (Would you go to a gig if you hadn’t fully tested it would work without problems)

Bill

We've both got good points, Bill!

I might disagree with the premise that it takes a CPU new generation before the bugs are ironed out of a major VSTi, though. Usually, most of the best ones are relatively ready to go at launch, and seldom do you have to wait more than a few months to get a smoothly running patch. They simply wouldn't sell if that were the case!

It is a year or more (often much more!) before major CPU architecture changes. If you had to wait that long, no-one would buy the initial release! Just out of curiosity, how often have you upgraded your CPU and MOBO on your Wersi? And how long have you have the Wersi?

Studio actually stresses the computer a bit LESS than live, because you always have the option to render and turn off one VSTi if it chokes your CPU. No such luck with live!

here is a demo of the PA3X with the output plugged into the camera so no excuses this time http://www.youtube.com/user/KorgUSAVideos#p/u/0/xirp4expFvQ

Now tell me honestly , does it sound improved over the PA1x, or 2X ? The same styles in the demo are on my PA1X and you dont have to take my word for it but they sound almost exactly the same on my keyboard through a mixing desk.

Heres the important question . Did it make you want to spend another nearly $4000 ?????

Be honest.........

I can't say I really heard a radical difference between the T3 and T4, or G70 and E80, either. If it was playing an older style, virtually none. This demo, as it uses older styles, it's pretty obvious it's going to sound about the same. Only the NEW styles will leverage the new sounds and features, in general.

I still out on this until i see a quality demo on this product in the near future...Korg can do better in the demo dept.

Donny you should know better than to be making assumptions from amateur impromptu video clips taken from home Video Cameras at a Trade Show stand??

The Korg PA 2x and PA 800 already sound top class. We all know this. The only thing that has steered a few people and yourself away is OS and keyboard functionality which is personal preference to our needs.

Obviously the PA 3X is a better sounding instrument. New drums / effects / new sounds in each category. It is just a shame that at the moment we haven't heard this thing in full flight!

There doesn't need to be a HUGE difference in sound between the PA2 and PA3 because the previous model was still up there. Its not like the previous model was crap and the new one is just a bit better.

And I Agree with a previous post that I saw before (cant remember who the poster was) but if you were not a fan of the Korg PA 800 / PA2X then I don't see how the PA 3X will blow you out of the water. But for Korg fans and people who love the Korg Sound, the PA 3X is going to be massive!

I honestly think the jump from the PA2X to the PA3X offers much more than the Jump from Tyros 3 to Tyros 4 and G70 to E80.

Until some official audio and video demos are released AND it is available in shops to try in the flesh it feels like some are flogging a dead horse.

Nick

As we've heard very little of the new CONTENT in the PA3, I think it's a little early to be either dissing OR praising it. It's been made clear that this was just a sneak peek at a beta, no way to judge what the final sound will be. That most of the styles we heard snippets of were legacy is a HUGE indicator that Korg have quite some work to do! Doubling the ROM ought to be quite significant, but only the new piano (and that violin sample, I think) seemed to be new sounds. Mind you, ONE decent grand piano could chew up most of that ROM increase if they weren't careful!

The thing that will make or break the PA3 is going to be whether Korg get parity with Yamaha with the DNC sounds. They have the technology. Did they come up with the samples to leverage it, finally?

Diki, so far we have heard alot more than just a Piano and a Violin voice. I think there might be a video or two that you may have missed

I have heard the new acoustic guitar and sax and they were excellent. definitely straight away a noticeable difference over the PA2. But yes as you and I have both said - still much much more to come...

Nick