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#313214 - 01/20/11 11:43 AM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: keybplayer]
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2403
Loc: Texas
I wonder how many of the forum members, who are mostly arranger players, would know how to use a workstation? I would be one of those who would not know where to start. The Kronos sounds pretty neat but for a guy like me I don't know what to make of all the specs and possibilities. I have looked several times for material that helps a workstation newbie get started but have never found anything that made sense to me.

I suppose if all arrangers went away we could always use a piano.

Hammer

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#313215 - 01/20/11 11:48 AM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: hammer]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Hammer, it wasn't long ago you didn't know how to use an arranger either. Us old dogs can learn new tricks if we want to.
DonM
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DonM

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#313217 - 01/20/11 11:52 AM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: hammer]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: hammer
I wonder how many of the forum members, who are mostly arranger players, would know how to use a workstation? I would be one of those who would not know where to start. The Kronos sounds pretty neat but for a guy like me I don't know what to make of all the specs and possibilities. I have looked several times for material that helps a workstation newbie get started but have never found anything that made sense to me.

I suppose if all arrangers went away we could always use a piano.

Hammer


I've been preaching instructional step by step DVDs for ALL musical products for years.....it should be a STANDARD part of all manufacturers libraries to teach their customers how to actually operate their products on ALL levels from Beginner to Advanced. There are many third party ones for sale & even home made ones on you tube that are really good also. Its in their best interest for companies to make operating these units AS EASY AS POSSIBLE in return for increased sales. Bill it's like a magic trick first time your Amazed!!! but if you find out how it was done the mystery is all gone!

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#313218 - 01/20/11 11:54 AM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: keybplayer]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14266
Loc: NW Florida
Nobody, at the height of the home organ reign, EVER thought they would one day go away. Anyone that thinks that arrangers are 'future-proof' would be well advised to consider this.

No-one can predict what will happen down the pike, but one thing is for certain. If a keyboard doesn't help you make the kind of music YOU want to play, you don't buy it. And arrangers in their current form do VERY little for someone that likes modern music... and are a VERY poor substitute for a WS with arp and loop capabilities, for someone that performs arp and loop based music (which is what a majority of modern music IS).

Either the arranger morphs, or WS's take over. None of us are going to live forever! They still MAKE home organs... But they are out of reach price-wise for most, not because of how intrinsically expensive they are, but the tiny size of the market rules out economy of scale. Unless we want the arranger to go down this path (and the ever spiraling upwards prices for TOTL arrangers, compared to TOTL WS's, that we have been seeing is an indicator it is already happening) the arranger MUST start to incorporate loops and arps, and deliver content that a 20 year old wouldn't feel embarrassed playing to his friends.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#313221 - 01/20/11 11:58 AM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: Diki]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Diki
Nobody, at the height of the home organ reign, EVER thought they would one day go away. Anyone that thinks that arrangers are 'future-proof' would be well advised to consider this.

No-one can predict what will happen down the pike, but one thing is for certain. If a keyboard doesn't help you make the kind of music YOU want to play, you don't buy it. And arrangers in their current form do VERY little for someone that likes modern music... and are a VERY poor substitute for a WS with arp and loop capabilities, for someone that performs arp and loop based music (which is what a majority of modern music IS).

Either the arranger morphs, or WS's take over. None of us are going to live forever! They still MAKE home organs... But they are out of reach price-wise for most, not because of how intrinsically expensive they are, but the tiny size of the market rules out economy of scale. Unless we want the arranger to go down this path (and the ever spiraling upwards prices for TOTL arrangers, compared to TOTL WS's, that we have been seeing is an indicator it is already happening) the arranger MUST start to incorporate loops and arps, and deliver content that a 20 year old wouldn't feel embarrassed playing to his friends.


That makes sense .....or just buy both ...nothing wrong with having an Arranger KB and a Workstaion like the Kronos/Motif also best of both worlds smile......why would someone have 5 or 6 arrangers in their house anyway??

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#313224 - 01/20/11 12:12 PM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: hammer]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
".....why would someone have 5 or 6 arrangers in their house anyway??"

Because we CAN???!!
Actually, the most I've ever had at one time is four. They're like women, I love 'em all.
DonM
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DonM

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#313233 - 01/20/11 12:37 PM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: DonM]
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2403
Loc: Texas
Hey Don,
That is about the gist of it. One day I looked up and I had 2 Tyros 3s, a Tyros 4, and an E80 sitting in my room. Thats just plain nuts. I finally got the E80 and the two Tyros 3s sold and now have only the Tyros 4. It's like an addiction.

Hammer

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#313234 - 01/20/11 12:39 PM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: hammer]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14266
Loc: NW Florida
Just one at a time in the house for me! Otherwise I'm going to want to take them ALL to the gig! Nothing worse than doing a style out on the gig and thinking 'Damn! My OTHER arranger does this style SO much better!' wink
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#313242 - 01/20/11 01:01 PM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: ianmcnll]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
I don't want a workstation frown...I'm VERY lazy, and they are too much work; hence the word "work" in their name.

If I really had to do without an arranger, I'd go the Band In A Box route.

I concur with both of Ian's above comments. cool
I bought an arranger to enjoy playing it, and not have to spend hours & hours of tedious work that workstations often demand.

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#313245 - 01/20/11 01:11 PM Re: When Arrangers Go Away [Re: Diki]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Diki
Unless we want the arranger to go down this path (and the ever spiraling upwards prices for TOTL arrangers, compared to TOTL WS's, that we have been seeing is an indicator it is already happening) the arranger MUST start to incorporate loops and arps, and deliver content that a 20 year old wouldn't feel embarrassed playing to his friends.


Already lower end (and more affordable for younger players) PSR are using arpeggiators, and a use real time control over ADSR.

Eventually this will end up on the higher end product; or, at least it should (can't see why not).

Styles still tend to lag behind current trends...overcoming that would help as well.

Casio seems to cater to that younger buyer better with each iteration of arranger, and piano-based arrangers...Yamaha less so, at least for now(although the PSR is getting better), but, competition has this wonderful side effect of making (more like forcing) companies shape up.

I could easily use an S910 and/or Tyros4 for my very last arranger...I'd just order a service manual, and several key contact strips...keep me in great shape for a long time.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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