I bring this one up every now and again, possibly time for a new go-round...

Have any of you got ideas for arranger features that ARE NOT on any current arranger (to your knowledge)?

I have a few...

I would like to see a 3/4 - 4/4 equivalency button, for going from jazz waltzes to jazz swings in the same bar timebase. In other words, 4/4 in the time of 3/4 and back.

I would like to see an expanded range for the LH chord recognition area, so that, if you play a chord in higher inversions, the style can take some of the parts (selectable) and use the same voice leading, or go higher on a virtual guitar neck.

Which is tied in, I guess, with better voice leading on arranger parts, to avoid the sudden jumps that often occur changing chords. Have piano parts, and the like follow the voice leading of the actual chord played.

I'd like to see EVERY SINGLE PARAMETER on an arranger be part of the Registration structure, not the current 'some are, some aren't' which is so arbitrary.

I'd like any 'Easy Piano' 'Easy ARR' and so forth one button quick setups to be completely programmable, to allow for individual chord recognition types, split points, modes and anything else a normal Registration can have, otherwise, for many power users, they are just a waste of panel space.

I'd like to see any unused MIDI channels for the RH section of an arranger tasked to a separate keyboard input MIDI channel, and all normal keyboard functions (sounds, split points, controller assignments, effects etc.) for it stored in the Registration. Instant PROPER two manual home organ (or anything else you can think of for it!). Just use a 'dumb' one MIDI channel second keyboard, and have the arranger take care of its layout.

I'd like to see a standard mike mount thread on the top panel or back of all arrangers, so you can quickly mount a boom right on the arranger, rather than having to haul a whole mike stand.

I'd like to see styles with a separate fill for EACH destination. On a four variation arranger. that's sixteen fills. MUCH smoother transitions, no repeated fills!

I'd like the headphone/monitor output to be able to have more RH in it without it being reflected in the main outs. We always want to hear ourselves a little louder than is good for a FOH mix!

OK... that's enough for right now! Please let us know what YOU would like that current arrangers DON'T have (just arranger features, please), or point out any current arrangers that DO do any particular feature.

You did say to point out ones that already do stuff ... well the PA series does exactly this (well, err that..)

The other points you rasied it doesn't but I concur with all of them

Dennis

So there are NO 'Global' parameters on a Korg arranger? Cool!

Years ago, Farfisa G7 had this feature - it was great, but it also allowed a little vibration to enter the mic stream ... you could hear hands on keys, and some louder sounds made the speakers buzz a tad once in a while .... I use a boom attached to my KB stand ... also has a try mounted for my mixer, so I never have to turn around or reach behind or to the side for anything during a show. There's a pic on my f/b page:
facebook.com/boydsongs

I'd probably use a shock-mount mike holder if that was an issue...

I'm pretty sure Yamaha has different fills for every style part, up down and fill-to-self. I like all your suggestions.
I would like to see more totally programmable buttons. Ketron is close with the row of 16 on some models, and the User buttons below the screen, but I would like a row of four or five that will do anything you want them to do, and be able to save them to registration.
DonM

Yamaha have only six fills, I believe. A full compliment is sixteen, including fill to self.

You see, the fill that goes from the busiest Var to the next less is different from the fill needed to go from the busiest to the simplest, And vice versa.

Some say this would complicate style production, but I disagree. At the moment, making a fill that does SEVERAL things well is harder than making several fills that only have to do ONE well, IMO.

If I understand your parameter saving suggestion, then the Wersi OAS instruments have had it for years, in that a pre-set saves sections, and depending on the selection you choose to store in a pre-set it will save all these selections, however if you don’t choose to save any particular section then this will revert to the global settings. (Each parameter can also be left at a standard setting before saving if required)

Some of the more advanced features you requested (Multiple fills for example) while ideal for Pros, would confuse most home players completely, (About 95% of arrangers are sold into the home market, which is what manufactures have always designed them for) so while it could be done, sales wise it is probably not in the manufactures interest. (A module on the other hand is a completely different kettle of fish)

Bill

Would a Stubby Holder be too much to ask??? hehe



Allan

Thanks for bringing this up again, DIKI.

As a non-performing songwriter, I use my old Yammie to help me "flesh out" new, original songs. The cost of most high-end arrangers can be prohibitive and I'd like to see a model available without speakers. (I never use mine when recording and always use headphones.) This might reduce the envelope a little or possible make space for more features. I'd also like to see a model with even fewer than 50 keys to reduce the width of the keyboard. I never play with my right hand. (In my case "play" means I normally use one finger chords on the left hand side of the "board.") I make no bones about it... I'm not a musician. Just a songwriter trying to compete in an already overcrowded market.

I catalog my style disks for quick retreival and "tweak" each style to suit the genre of the song being created.

I don't know if its only a problem with older Yamaha Arrangers but I'd like them to provide a way for the multi-pad volume to stay at it's adjusted volume when switching from Main C to D, etc. It can raise havoc when you attempt to get more or different instruments into a song and suddenly discover that the multi-pad accompaniment has reverted to volume 100 instead of volume 50 when you push the button to go to Main D. I've also noticed that the on-board multi-pads appear to begin, miss nearly a full measure then begin again after being selected.


I don't really need a hard drive so my ideal machine would continue to have a floppy drive. This might also reduce the cost a little. I could also do without the on-board recording feature because I use a USB digital recorder between the keyboard and my PC... where I do final edits. Most importantly, I'd like to retain the power of the Tyros Engine even if it has to be a pared down S910 version.

In my case, smaller is better. My once massive studio space is now a bedroom closet... LOL... and I need room for all my other recording junk.

Hope I didn't hi-jack your thread, DIKI but this seemed like the perfect place to bring this up. Thanks for understanding.

Dave Rice

http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice/

Rice, you can forget floppies, they aren't even making them anymore. You can use one USB thumb drive and have 100 times more stuff, all neatly organized, than you can with a stack of floppies.
We'll have to drag you, kicking and screaming, into the new century.
This module, controlled by a really small keyboard controller, would be ideal for you.
I even have a two-octave Alesis controller sitting on the shelf, and it's available REALLY CHEAP.
DonM

Hey Don:

A thumb drive would work. I use them now to transfer songs from one PC to my internet Laptop. Still, the cataloging capability might be a little more complex but I could work around that easily. Don't most (if not all) controllers require MIDI connection? MIDI appears to be the next thing down from Rocket Science in complexity... LOL! I have difficulty just using more than one track of my digital recorder.

Educate me a little and we might just see what the Alesis could do for me. The learning curve is what I'm worried about. It's all I can do just to stay focused on writing songs, getting them recorded and then running the gauntlet in Nashville with 20,000 other gullible fools who think they might stand a chance in getting a cut by George Strait or Reba MacIntyre... LOL! (Or someone else of that stature... even Josh Groban would be acceptable in a pinch.)

Thanks,

Dave

All the Alesis controller would do for you would be call up the chords from the module. It wouldn't require much setting up as far as the controller. There would be a learning curve on the module since you are mostly familiar with Yamaha.
I'll help any way I can.
Don

Hey Don:

My internet provider has some kinda goofy security feature and it gets in the way when I try to e-mail from a site, like SZ. Anyway, when convenient, either PM me or e-mail me with some numbers I can crunch. I'm assuming this approach would involve abandoning (at least not using) the PSR-2K?

Thanx,

Dave

Most of us use Auto-fill, these days. Four fills, or sixteen, we still use the same four variation buttons to get fills (hit the same variation for fill-to-same). I don't think this would confuse the average user. And, while some of the things I ask for might be complex to make, in PRACTICE, they add no complexity to what the player does. Just gives more MUSICAL results when you do what you already do...

I would love to see an arranger that moves it all one step further...

By combining a typical arranger, KARMA and the Matrix from Ableton live intoo one big engine... A style would have like 8 tracks with 8 parts... top line buttons would switch all tracks to the next part... But you could also switch inidividuall style tracks. Normall intro/fill/begin would still be available... but also Karma fills, and they would play ontop of a style.. Next to the system should also allow audio fyles that can be transposed(elastique) to reflect the right chord.

Next to i would love to see more options for direct controll over the sounds.. some knobs would be highly appreciated as well as a ribbon controller..


Most important would be full master keyboard functionallity, which would let you assign every button and/or controller to any external function you would like..

An application that would function as /VST host/VST plugin/extensive editor/ on a remote computer... most top model synths allready have this for years and years.


... and every good arranger should have both 61 and 76 key versions, but tghat would not be a new feature

Diki I'm pretty sure MOTL/TOTL arrangers from Yamaha, Korg, and probably Ketron already do what you are asking for. Take a look at the style creation sections of their manuals that discuss Note Transposition Rules (NTT / NTR), Wrap Range, High Key, etc. On a Yamaha for example, the bass will change octaves if a C-chord is played with C3 instead of C2 as the bass note. In fact if you're not careful, the pattern can exceed the natural range of the selected instrument!

Roland are a little behind the others in this regard. They implemented the "Alteration" message on the E-series, but frankly Yamaha, Korg, Ketron, and even Casio give the user more control over how the arranger engine will adapt the style pattern to chord input. Since the BK-7m manual doesn't mention anything about style creation, I guess we'll just have to wait for the G-90! (Hmmm, come to think of it, I wonder how the Prelude and the BK-7m deal with the alteration message if one is embedded in an E-80 style track...?)

Personally I would like to see more user customization of chord recognition rules. For example: a user could specify minor 7ths instead of 6th chords for certain inversions (on Yammies, 6th chords always seem to get in the way!) Optional 2-note fingerings for augmented, diminished, and sus4 chords. More control over how on-bass chords are recognized (for example, user-defined interval or lower split point to specify an on-bass note); single note as full major or 1+8, etc. Also more user control over rootless types. These options could simply be a series of check-boxes that overlay the existing chord recognition modes.

Another option (which is implemented in the Live Styler arranger software, but not in any hardware arranger that I know of) is a user-adjustable window for intelligent chord input. Many of you dislike the simplified chord system because an unintended chord can be recognized and sounded prematurely as soon as the first one or two keys are pressed. One solution would be to have a user-adjustable delay "window" from real time to 35 milliseconds (ms) before the chord is resolved and sounded. This would allow a less-precise player to sacrifice some responsiveness and playability for better accuracy and fewer false notes or false chords in the resulting score.

To me, the defining functions of an arranger are chord recognition and style pattern transposition, so these software enhancements should receive careful consideration and treatment by the manufacturers.

I also like the idea others have suggested of some randomness (as an option for practicing at home, not for professional performance!) I never fooled with a Karma but I think it would be neat if the backing were a little different every time depending on what kind of "mood" the computer is in. It might even encourage me to practice more! Good thread!!

Well, it would be for Yamaha..!

I used to like the old Roland system of three buttons for Bass & Drums, Small Combo (Bass, drums and the comp, either piano or guitar), and full style.

I think most arrangers could benefit from this...

I'd also like to see a system that allows you to use Markers in an MP3. Obviously, this is quite a complex task, as a bar/beat map would have to be generated so that the machine knows where the 'one' is to jump to, but it's a VERY useful feature for SMF's, and would be equally useful for audio files.

While we are on Mark/Jump features, it would be handy to have each Mark point store a 'loop length' parameter, and a double tap of the Jump button would make the sequencer loop that section until you single tap it, upon which, it carries on (or you tap another Mark point).

I'd like to see a change to the arranger's screen display background colors (maybe a nice red-ish hue?) for when you are transposed... I have a bad habit of forgetting to take it off at the end of a song, and start the next song in the wrong key (the G70 transpose button is well off to the side, away from the main display)! Something in the main display that you can't miss would help idiots out like me!

I think that the Kronos's SSHD streaming of samples is the future. 12GB instead of less than 1GB of ROM on a current arranger. This should be adopted immediately!

Pianostyle mode should have a user defined number of notes before the new chord is recognized. Sometimes three is a bit too touchy. Four or five might make for a better, cleaner recognition...

For Roland's (who still don't have a Break/Fill, just a Break/Mute) I'd like to see a Fill hit during the Mute play ONLY the drums (nice little pickup opportunity). I also like Ketron's separate Break/Fills for each Variation. The Break that works for Var4 rarely works for Var1... (I know, I know... I am getting past arranger features that NO-ONE has, but this one is pretty good, and nothing else has it, AFAIK).

Come on, keep 'em coming...!