General Arranger Forum. We all need to be very careful when comparing keyboard products from different Brands.
We need as a customer as many manufacturers as possibly in business to keep them all on their toes to produce competitive future models.
Stating that the T4 is better than anything on the arranger market is bad from a buyers point of view, because if Yamaha have the sole arranger market to themselves is not good for competitive future models.

Certainly there will be those who will state and believe that the Yamaha Tyros4 is, " better than anything on the arranger market."

And, there are those who state and believe that the Korg PA2Xpro (or, now the 3X) is, "better than anything on the arranger market."

And, let's not forget the Roland aficionados who think that the Roland G-70 (or E-80) is "better than anything on the arranger market".

It's strange, but even as I write these three statements, they start looking sillier and sillier.

I hardly think that Tyros4 is actually "better" than PA2Xpro(or3X) or G-70(E-80) because "better" can have so many meanings.

It (T4) certainly is better (perhaps "more advanced" is a better description) than any other Tyros to date, although even that is debatable by Tyros2 and T3 owners.

It is the best for my needs, and quite likely, someone else's, but, let's be realistic, it is hardly going to be "the best" for every-one's needs.

Roland's departure from the TOTL and MOTL arranger arena was basically self-orchestrated, and due to many reasons, but certainly not because they weren't "the best" for many people's needs...the company simply made a decision based on factors only an insider would know, to discontinue most of their arranger line (at least the keyboard based ones), and Technics was of a similar style withdrawal.

That leaves Korg, and, in my opinion, to a lesser extent, Ketron, with Casio and Mediastation really not having anything resembling a TOTL arranger, as choices for the arranger buyer.

Korg's rather controversial launch at NAMM certainly didn't appear to be one of their better product showcasing in recent years, yet, there are many simply not discouraged by what they heard, and still regard Korg as "the best".

I really believe Korg will turn it around, and I think the PA3X will do very well.

Would I want to see Yamaha as the sole producer of TOTL arrangers, even from my relatively small position within the company, and as an admirer of their sound?

Nope!

Competition is why Tyros4 (and PA3X) are where they are with their features today...competition keeps companies on their toes...competition always benefits the buyer/consumer/user....all my opinion, of course.

Ian

Ian:

I agree. The best TOTL is purely subjective. I selected the T3 because of the SA2 voices for woodwinds and its overall sound quality appealed to me. I liked its more CD sound, as many call it, and since I mostly compose and record it works for me. However it was a close competition with the Korg PA2X and if I played live events I might have gone that direction. I also listened to Internet demos of the Roland Arrangers and found a lot I liked about their overall sound. Plus the G70 looks like it is well built. I wish i could have demoed a G70 or E80 but there were none to be found. So for me there were just a few discriminating items that led me to the Tyros and I could have easily bought the Korg. They are all very good and I could live with any of them. I wouldn't mind having all three. I plan to take a close look at the new Roland BK arranger box.

Yes, I hope the PA3x is great. We need more choices and competition.

Joe

They are ALL great in one way or another...

But some need them one way, some need another!

Actually Ian, I find that a good thing!! It shows folks are enthusiastic about whatever it is they are using. It is positive thing and it is good to read how folks are really "getting into" their chosen 'board..

It only denigrates, when folks try to impose these opinions on others who are using something different. You know what happens, the little snide remarks when someone will make a positive comment re their 'board, and then others reply, but they preface the reply with things, like "...oh this X brand keybed is fantastic and so much better, but I see that you enjoy that keybed...." or " whilst my Brand X keyboard has the best sax around, I think yours is good if it meets your needs..." not being aware (or in some cases BEING aware) that this is really a "putdown".

This is where it goes wrong.... I have even done it myself.

So more power to those folks who choose to share their enthusiasm, and maybe less of us inserting surreptitious comparisons

BTW this is not directed at anyone in particular, as I think we all have done it to some degree at odd times.

Dennis

Yes, Dennis, my remark about the "sillier" is when I thought back about how many times I myself have been guilty of the same...I can't speak for anyone else.

And, if we only knew how ineffective it really is...it only serves to make those in the other camps dig in a little deeper.

Reminds me of the Aesop's fable of the sun and the wind trying to get the man to remove his coat.

Enthusiasm with an open mind is probably the best approach, although I'm probably going to drift from time to time, depending on how good I feel about me on that day.

Ian

Yes, m8, I totally agree I think we are all allowed to drift a bit, as you say, from time to time, as long as we recognise it is what we are doing and pull back..As I said in my op, I am guilty as well..

Dennis

I think it's not so much as someone insulting the brand or model of an arranger someone has spent the time to research and purchase with their hard earned money, but when such criticisms (sometimes unnecessarily blunt) are perceived (wrongly or not) as an insult to some one's choice of said instrument as being less than wise.

No arranger is perfect...no buying decision is either, but not too many like it pointed out (in a sometimes flippant manner...maybe an attempt at dry humor, but certainly rarely understood by everyone) on a public forum that they are being made to look like they are inept, or even fools, for buying a particular brand compared to another poster's obviously wiser (to them) decision.

We must always remember (me included) that our needs are sometimes different...sometimes to the point of being polar opposites.

It is perhaps better to focus more on identifying with another arranger user than on comparing the differences, although the latter does have a certain amount of value when done in moderation.

My opinion of course.

Ian

+1