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#328554 - 07/12/11 06:55 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15569
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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At one time I owned a vocal harmonizer that had pitch correction--it was a feature I didn't need, but out of curiousity I tried it out. It followed the chords perfectly. This was a decade or more ago, and the device would only correct up to certain amount, but it did an excellent job within its range. I don't think this is a hoax, it's just improved technology. Thanks for the link--it's another WOW factor for arranger keyboard technology. P.S.: I already sound like Roger Whitiker, at least that's what the ladies tell me. ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/wink.gif) Gary ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/cool.gif)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#328558 - 07/12/11 07:06 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: travlin'easy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
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At one time I owned a vocal harmonizer that had pitch correction--it was a feature I didn't need, but out of curiousity I tried it out. It followed the chords perfectly. This was a decade or more ago, and the device would only correct up to certain amount, but it did an excellent job within its range. I don't think this is a hoax, it's just improved technology. Thanks for the link--it's another WOW factor for arranger keyboard technology. P.S.: I already sound like Roger Whitiker, at least that's what the ladies tell me. ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/wink.gif) Gary Gary, Pity you can't spell Roger Whittaker right but why should you its Englosh and who am I to tell you I miss letters and words out all the time, Gary in UK your name is Gazoh, and you are right technology with the T4 is breaking the rules. Tell you what Gazoh, SZ feels nice now, some good things popping up all the time now, free and easy on SZ Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey
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#328560 - 07/12/11 07:21 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
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Gang, some of you...go back and read my post again and then watch it again. Craig is a Yamaha heavy hitter like Martin harris, he programs and develops software & styles, sounds etc.
And IMHO, why could not anyone use this for any purpose they want?? I heard him sing a little last night and he is not a great singer....but with this, anyone can sing right on pitch every note.
Rikki, YES you could do this. The tone of his voice, and other nuances come from him, BUT the pich comes from the note he is playing on the keyboard.
This is only a prototype, it is on the T4 right now (as the demo shows) but the VH2 HW allows him to do this programming and he told me it is very capable HW ,,,,,just needs mor programming to use it's full potential.
A way we can help get this is go to the youtube demo and sign in and comment. He will then take this to Yamaha for a commitment to add this feature.
_________________________
Lee S.
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#328582 - 07/12/11 11:12 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2227
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#328590 - 07/12/11 12:35 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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My ROLAND VP770 (and the VP550 before it) does all this and 10 times more, including being a world class vocal harmonizer, a superior vocoder, a decent synth, and a good controller for my BK7m arranger module. It also plays wav's and mp3's with highly synced part markers for to up to 16 parts assigned to the bottom 16 keys of the (very good feeling) keyboard. It has so many other features that would make it a dream machine for poor-singing arranger players, but poor marketing has made it a 'best kept secret' in all but the top end of the music industry. Many well known touring professionals have it in their arsenal and those who have taken the time to explore it, learn it, and are open-minded enough to recognize it's potential, love it. One downside; it ain't cheap (@ $2100 usd). Oh, did I mention that it has 'Supernatural Brass', a Roland feature that operates like the brass on no other synth. Also, great strings and choirs. Oh yeah, auto chord follow, and auto harmony creation from the note you sing (with no keyboard input - plus these modes can be combined, if desired). With this KB, you can literally 'talk' the lyrics (and key the melody) and it will do the rest. This board goes WAYYYYYY beyond pitch correction. You won't be able to see all the benefits and features from a store demonstration; you really need to do some serious research and spend some quality time with it.
Don't want this post to sound like a super testimonial/promotional/sales pitch, like so many of the T4 posts (which, frankly, is starting to get a little annoying -we get it; the T4 is the end-all of the entire music world). This (VP770) is a seriously good instrument for those who need this type of keyboard and are willing to make the investment in time to learn to use it.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#328591 - 07/12/11 12:37 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: Tony Hughes]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
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Well Joe, there you go we are all not as well blessed vocally as you, some of us have not had the professional voice training like you, some of us can just about get away with saying we can sing, especially when we sing in front of old people who are part deaf or tone deaf. Joe if the technology is there Yamaha will use it to sell KBS what wrong with that. Don’t you use echo or reverberation on your KB or is that you straight voice. Life has moved on from the Bontempi , C3 etc, spring reverberation units and copy cat tape echo.
Tonyneeeeeeeeeeeee!
There you are pitch perfect joe.
Anyone can sing...it is just many should NOT!! Including quite a few on this forum. Software like this, same as auto-tune and others, should be banned from all but those people who sing ONLY at home for their personal enjoyment/pastime. I agree with the post that if you are a pro singer, this software should be TOTALLY redundant. Reverb and other ambience effects are okay imho as they are merely enhancements, NOT correctional tools.
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#328597 - 07/12/11 01:17 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Joe, In the music business...who said everyone here is in the music business??? And who says ALL arranger players or any keyboard for that matter can sing or even wants to??
There are LOTS of folks that wouls sing some, if they could....this is a breakthrough technology. BY YAMAHA ONLY. Also, This is a hobby for me and others.... That's the basic idea, Lee...probably for "home" users, but there are pros who use pitch correct all the time in studios (and "live" as well), so I can see Tyros4 users/singers taking advantage of it when out performing "live". Definitely a "breakthrough". Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328612 - 07/12/11 02:16 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: montunoman]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15569
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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I'm really curious what this could do for a very average singer like me. I have pretty good pitch but no vibrato or nice tone.
Also I personally wouldn't want to sing in public if none of my natural voice is retained. I'd like something that enhances my voice not replaces it. Paul, you already have those options available on your keyboard's vocal processor. You can really enhance your vocals by going into the Mic Setting/Vocal Harmony program, then save the settings to a registration specifically designated for that purpose. You can add depth, reverb, echo, change the EQs, and many, many other things that deal with vocals. Good Luck, Gary ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/cool.gif)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#328627 - 07/12/11 04:21 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15569
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Chas, I want to hear a demo of what you said...you sing WAY off pitch and I want to hear the machine put your voice right on the money...just like the demo Craig did. I'll second that request! And, post it on YouTube if you don't mind. Cheers, Gary ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/cool.gif)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#328639 - 07/12/11 07:48 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Lee and Gary. There are plenty of demos of this capability on the VP770, starting with the Roland site. Why would I make something like this up? Everyone is so busy oooohing and awwwwing over this that they conveniently overlooked everything I said. Since Roland has had this for at least 2, maybe 3 generations now, it's just pure BS to say that "Yamaha is leading the field" in this - just more self-promoting hogwash featuring the 'usual suspects'. In fact, it seems YAMAHA is not behind this at all, just one lone wolf employee. I'm betting a dollar to a donut that this feature never shows up on a Yamaha arranger, ESPECIALLY AS A FREE SOFTWARE UPDATE.
The VP770 will not only do what was done in that video, but everything else I said in my previous post plus a TON more, such as an audio recorder and what is effectively an audio version of a 'chord sequencer'. There is another couple that are members here on SZ (though they haven't posted in awhile) that also own a VP770 and who I am sure will verify everything I have said (or just call your friendly Roland rep and ask him - if you can find one that knows the VP770 and it's capabilities). Like me, they upgraded from the VP550 (which would also do what was done in the video). The number of features added in that upgrade is nothing short of phenomenal.
BTW, Frans was right when he said this was just becoming one big Yamaha promotional site. It seems like no matter what the post topic, the greatness of Yamaha and especially the T4, worms it's way into it. Maybe Nigel should split the GENERAL ARRANGER forum into two parts, Yamaha and Everything else, that way us 'Everything else' folks wouldn't have to be constantly bombarded with a steady stream of marketing propaganda blowing down from the north.
And BTW, Lee and Gary. Your posts sounded a lot more like "Oh yeah, prove it" than "Gee, thanks for the information, I didn't know that". But maybe I'm just being too sensitive.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#328646 - 07/12/11 09:55 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
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My ROLAND VP770 (and the VP550 before it) does all this and 10 times more, including being a world class vocal harmonizer, a superior vocoder, a decent synth, and a good controller for my BK7m arranger module. It also plays wav's and mp3's with highly synced part markers for to up to 16 parts assigned to the bottom 16 keys of the (very good feeling) keyboard. It has so many other features that would make it a dream machine for poor-singing arranger players, but poor marketing has made it a 'best kept secret' in all but the top end of the music industry. Many well known touring professionals have it in their arsenal and those who have taken the time to explore it, learn it, and are open-minded enough to recognize it's potential, love it. One downside; it ain't cheap (@ $2100 usd). Oh, did I mention that it has 'Supernatural Brass', a Roland feature that operates like the brass on no other synth. Also, great strings and choirs. Oh yeah, auto chord follow, and auto harmony creation from the note you sing (with no keyboard input - plus these modes can be combined, if desired). With this KB, you can literally 'talk' the lyrics (and key the melody) and it will do the rest. This board goes WAYYYYYY beyond pitch correction. You won't be able to see all the benefits and features from a store demonstration; you really need to do some serious research and spend some quality time with it.
Don't want this post to sound like a super testimonial/promotional/sales pitch, like so many of the T4 posts (which, frankly, is starting to get a little annoying -we get it; the T4 is the end-all of the entire music world). This (VP770) is a seriously good instrument for those who need this type of keyboard and are willing to make the investment in time to learn to use it.
chas
Chas..you are correct...and the G70 also has the same capabilities...I have preached for years ..telling everyone.Roland has the best "smart" harmonizer in the business...I am amazed how little folks that claimed to try the G70..really know.. ![grin grin](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/grin.gif)
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#328647 - 07/12/11 10:06 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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UD....He told me the tone is his, it is not a vocoder. We hear his voive not a instument/voice on the T4 .
Chas. doesn't matter if the VP-770 is not an arranger, I could care less what it does. From what I saw/heard it is not an arranger and I did not thisnk the sounds of the singing was all that goos...sounded pretty digital.
Well said, Lee. Methinks the Tyros4 harmonizer is far beyond what we expected, and Craig is proving that point. The VP-770 not only isn't an arranger, but it is limited to a meagre 49-note keyboard and digital sounding voices. The Tyros4 harmonizer is far more useful to an arranger player than the VP-770. I am looking forward to any more information you can get from Craig. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328648 - 07/12/11 10:16 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: travlin'easy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Chas, I want to hear a demo of what you said...you sing WAY off pitch and I want to hear the machine put your voice right on the money...just like the demo Craig did. I'll second that request! And, post it on YouTube if you don't mind. Cheers, Gary I'll add my vote to yours and Lee's, Gary, but I have a feeling that we may be waiting a very long time...obviously talk is cheap. Craig put his demo where everyone could see and hear the power of his software, and also demonstrating the Tyros4's VH-2 is more than a mere upgrade from the previous harmonizer. It would be nice if the VH-2 finds it's way to the upcoming PSR-S-series and CVP Clavinovas. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328663 - 07/13/11 04:39 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Chas. doesn't matter if the VP-770 is not an arranger, I could care less what it does.
Then why ask me to demo it? I never said it was an arranger; only that it was a keyboard that had that capability. Uncle Dave is right, in that, like the VP770, it uses a combination of your voice and the note played as formant and carrier to form the 'new' voice you hear. On the VP770 there are many, many parameters available to modify the characteristics of the newly formed voice. You can add as much or as little of your own voice into the mix as you like. If, by chance, you CAN sing reasonably on-key, mixing some of your own voice in can add more 'flavor' to the mix, especially if you are doing harmony as well. Of course, none of this matters if you are only interested in this feature as an add-on to a T4. However, since SZ is made up of more than just Yamaha T4 owners, despite their posting dominance, I thought I'd just include information on another product that had a similar capability (and was already available). Since I have no stake, monetary or otherwise, in Roland, I was not PUSHING Roland products, just providing additional information related to the subject originally posted. I have no history of shilling for Roland, so I could care less if you go out and buy a Roland product. I thought the whole idea of a forum was to provide as much information as possible on a given subject. What they choose to do with that information is up to them. After Lee and Gary's 'challenge' to my information, it was no surprise to see the usual 'piling on'. I'm still hopeful that some of you will actually READ what's posted here, sort through the propaganda, ignore the thinly-veiled barbs, and not be so easily taken in by glib opportunist who seize every chance to promote their product and attack anyone who dares suggest that there might be life outside of planet Yamaha. Personally, I think Yamaha makes a fine product, not so sure about those who shill for it. chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#328665 - 07/13/11 05:19 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
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Chas,
Just as I thought we had turned a corner on SZ and we have ladies posting, first time I have seen, people I have never heard of before post now and we are back on the same old bandwagon, this thread was OK until now, guns drawn at dawn is not what this is about. Chas I understand you were a pilot like me, hell glad you are retired wouldn’t like a tongue-lashing with air traffic control would you, just to get a landing slot. Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey
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#328671 - 07/13/11 06:27 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: Tony Hughes]
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Member
Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Michigan
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Chas,
Just as I thought we had turned a corner on SZ and we have ladies posting, first time I have seen, people I have never heard of before post now and we are back on the same old bandwagon, this thread was OK until now, guns drawn at dawn is not what this is about. Chas I understand you were a pilot like me, hell glad you are retired wouldn’t like a tongue-lashing with air traffic control would you, just to get a landing slot. Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical. thankyou Mr Tony Hughes....Your my kind of Guy... Paula
_________________________
My Keyboards is how I drive my Husband NUTS!!!
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#328672 - 07/13/11 06:44 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: Princess]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
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Chas,
Just as I thought we had turned a corner on SZ and we have ladies posting, first time I have seen, people I have never heard of before post now and we are back on the same old bandwagon, this thread was OK until now, guns drawn at dawn is not what this is about. Chas I understand you were a pilot like me, hell glad you are retired wouldn’t like a tongue-lashing with air traffic control would you, just to get a landing slot. Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical. thankyou Mr Tony Hughes....Your my kind of Guy... Paula Paula, Thank You. In the UK most of us treat ladies like ladies and I am sure they do in the states, but in the recent past SZ is not a place I would want my wife to wander into, let’s not go mad I am not saying it’s foul, but it could be much better and there have been some …….. words. I loved it when I saw your face and I though wow we are going to get some good chat now and seeing you can keep the lid on it, well let’s hope you are not put off and I for one would like to hear more from you. My wife once open SZ by mistake and I can’t type what she said about it. There is a lot to learn and there are a handful of very experienced and helpful people on SZ. Very Kind Regards Paula Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey
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#328673 - 07/13/11 06:52 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Al, sounds like you're another that didn't bother to thoroughly read my posts. Pity. There was lots of good information there for those that may not have known about this keyboard. Of course, if you're pre-disposed to looking for something negative in ANYthing I post, what can I say. As for Tony's picture, TONY was the one who brought up the subject of avatars, a point conveniently overlooked. And anyone except someone looking for something negative would recognize that my response to Tony's remark about my avatar was nothing more than a good-natured, humorous retort. My oh my, you guys do love to rush in to a feeding frenzy. Also, I'm not overly concerned about what you do and don't appreciate. Don't like my posts, don't read them.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#328675 - 07/13/11 08:08 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5515
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
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I may be in the minority, but I thought Chas offered an unbiased alternative to the T4 plugin. He didn't say it was better than the T4 as a whole, but rather contained an equal or better vocoder.
In researching the VP770, I was quite surprised eventhough it is not an arranger. Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact
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#328677 - 07/13/11 08:16 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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I agree that the quality shown in the Yamaha demo is indeed better than that on the VP770. However, it is (probably) not 'pitch correction' as we know it, as even multi-thousand dollar pro studio units won't do pitch correction over that great a range. I suspect it is technology similar to Roland's, except that it sounds better. Of course, at this point, it's only vaporware but would be a nice feature as an inexpensive software update on an existing keyboard. One question would be, how do different voices effect the final 'voice'. Also, is this limited to a single voice or can this also generate harmony parts in the same (or other) voices? Guess those questions won't be answered until this project is picked up by Yamaha, developed, and made available to it's customers. Hope that happens sooner than later. Maybe they'll make it available for my T2. Nah.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#328680 - 07/13/11 09:06 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: Princess]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Chas,
Just as I thought we had turned a corner on SZ and we have ladies posting, first time I have seen, people I have never heard of before post now and we are back on the same old bandwagon, this thread was OK until now, guns drawn at dawn is not what this is about. Chas I understand you were a pilot like me, hell glad you are retired wouldn’t like a tongue-lashing with air traffic control would you, just to get a landing slot. Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical. thankyou Mr Tony Hughes....Your my kind of Guy... Paula You're right Paula, Tony is one of the "good guys" on the forum, and a perfect gentleman...plus he's a real PILOT as well. I am also very pleased to see another lady posting, and I am sure Rikki and Elizabeth are glad to have you aboard. Welcome to SZ. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328707 - 07/13/11 02:03 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15569
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Chas, I was hoping to hear something from you that was different than what the OP contained, but I guess that's not gonna' happen. Over the past couple decades I've played around with just about every vocal processor made and I have yet to hear one that provided vocal quality remotely close to what the OP posted. When you posted the information about the Roland I first thought that maybe something may have changed, but after listening to the Roland demos that was obviously not the case. I asked that YOU demo the VP-770 and assumed from YOUR post that YOU owned one and could provide the forum with a demo of how it sounds, with and without the processor--just as the OP link provided. I don't think this has anything to do with Yamaha. From my perspective it's a great, technological advancement in vocal processing through the use of very creative software. And, I suspect the same technology could be applied not only to Yamaha, but other arrangers and synths as well. In this particular instance, the software creator just happened to apply this to a Tyros4. I, for one, applaud such advancements and applaud those who have provided us with the fruits of their labor. Gary ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/cool.gif)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#328711 - 07/13/11 02:44 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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If it was Korg I would be just as excited...BUT, since it is Yamaha....sure Yamaha supporters are going to be excited and supportive...so what???
Seems like when ever we get someting positive going one of only a very few just want to cause problems, it gets old.
You know Lee, I'd feel the same excitement if this technology was shown on a Korg arranger. It would raise the bar, and force Korg's competitors (Yamaha, Roland etc.) to play catch up, and who benefits? We the player/user/buyer. Competition is good for us all. Let's hope the thread continues in a positive light, and there are no more unnecessary hijacks. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328712 - 07/13/11 02:46 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Gary, I guess you missed the part where I acknowledged that the prototype demo as performed on the T4 sounded better than the Roland product.
Lee, yes this is an arranger forum, just as it was when we discussed all the other standalone vocal processors that we've discussed over the years. Didn't seem to bother anyone then. Don't suppose it's the messenger, do you? I'm guessing that nearly half of the people here own or have owned some kind of external voice processor/harmonizer. Well, that's what the VP770 is. The 'VP' stands for VOCAL PROCESSOR. So I guess you're saying that anyone who posts anything other than 'Woohoo, that's great', is a troublemaker who only wants to cause problems. I guess for people who only want to hear what they want to hear, that's true. Anyhow, hope your enthusiasm for this potential product is rewarded in a timely and affordable fashion. No harmful intent here.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#328717 - 07/13/11 03:21 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
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Chas no that's not what I am saying... I think we should support each others interest, no matter what brand ect...and sometimes I think some people just live to find a way to be negative. You made what has been posted here like no big deal you can already do that...well, everything so far I heard on the VP770 is not even close...but the real issue is this is a post about a new, possible feature for one of the most successful, most poular arranger keyboads alive today. This is further expanding the VH2 HW on the T4 (and soon the Clavinova 509 follow on model) Why always throw cold water on something fun & positive. The request for a demo based on what you said could be already done, was to hear how good/poor it is, not to say your info is incorrect. Peace.
This thread is specificaly about a Yamaha leading edge development I fould out about at a clinic, by a real top level Yamaha guy that has contributed lots of stuff to many Yamaha products....and it is on a very popular set of products, one being the T4. I just think it is very exciting that maybe, just maybe we could have something on an arranger for us in a group that are not really singers. I play arranger because I love to be a one man band and have some really great mucic coming from my limited musical training. I know that there are some here that are top notch performers, can sing, dance, play multiple instruments etc...but an arranger can also be used by home players to make some great music for us that are not gigging PRO musicians. This feature would bring a lot of fun and a few laughs for us less fortunate that can not get the pitch right but would like to sing our favotite songs.
My concern now is that yamaha will ignore this great development and we will once again, like many things we have asked yamaha (and others as well) for, be left out. Lets hope that does not happen. So, once again go to the web site and support the feature, even if you don't want it, or think it sucks...please help the rest of us out here. It only take a couple minutes to post a comment on Youtube.... As to affordability, I really don't know, but knowing Craig...he developed this to sell HW, not to make lots $$ on this fun feature...It could be free, or IMHO it will not be a lot of $$. To us that cannot sing well, and no lessons can fix that...I think we would pay something for it...me, maybe $100 - 200. depending on all the details of it's capability/
_________________________
Lee S.
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#328723 - 07/13/11 04:09 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Lee, thank you for softening the tone of your post and BTW, I agree with everything you said, except for the 'throwing cold water' part ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) . I was merely trying to point out that the technology you fancied was already available (athough not as refined) in an existing product. I also listed some of it's other features and the fact that I use mine to control my BK7m arranger module which results in a decent arranger with a terrific harmonizer, you know, something that might interest someone who liked the feature but didn't own a T4. Nothing wrong with alternatives, right? Or having all the available infomation. I'm sorry if I put a damper on your enthuiasm for this product, but in reality, it doesn't really exist as a marketable product at this point. If you want me to go to the site and put in a plug for it, I will happily do so and for all the reasons you mentioned in your post above. Peace to you as well, my friend. Don't go entirely by my avatar; looks can be deceiving, believe me, I know. chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#328799 - 07/14/11 02:02 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7294
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
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#328801 - 07/14/11 02:13 PM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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He gang ...don't take it too serious. I think Craigs intention is to have a feature that is fun....maybe not for a guy on stage! He did Kookie Kaoreoke for the same reason.
For someone like me and I think thousands of others...it is very cool and useable in a specific scenario.
Remember we do not know just how it works yet, and maybe it's only the beginning of what will be done on the VH2/ These days HW is a given, it's the software and implementation that counts...That's what I do for a living, custom software in industrial environments. Spot on, Lee...it is meant mainly for the home user, much like Kookie Karaoke....however, there's nothing stopping the many professionals, who also use Tyros4, from taking advantage of it. The word from Yamaha is that the VH-2 is a new vocal processor...not an enhanced version of the old one. And, yes, apparently it is only the beginning of what can be done with it, and with guys like Craig, no telling to what levels it can be taken. Remember, most of the features, that professionals use on today's arrangers, had their beginnings in the home market; auto-accompaniment, for instance. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328943 - 07/17/11 03:23 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
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Guys.... This technology has been on the market for many many years already and is already in the forum of Rack Units, Foot Pedals, PC Software and in Keyboards like the KORG Pa-Series. It has also been out long enough to evolve hugely way above what you see demostraterd in that video.
I have no idea what they plan on adding to the Tyros, any of the other devices you can pick up function in 3 different ways when it comes to this specific function.
1: You can specify the scale and key your singing in, and in real-time the software will pitch correct your voice. This is the most popular way to use the technology and professionals gigging and studio's all across the world use it this way. Highly recommended.
2: You can step sequence in notes and use a trigger to go through the notes so the software only allows the sequenced pitch that is triggered to sound. Which is what you are seeing in his video. This method is normally only used in Studio's for people who are utter crap at singing, or for those looking for a specific sort of effect.
3: You can play the notes in real-time and the software will pitch your voice to the notes your playing. This mode can work in conjunction with mode 1 above, so that if in the Studio the singer is a little too far off key for the real-time system to pick them up correctly, you can tweak the notes. Normally only done in post production with recorded tracks.
Racks and other devoices that have these functions also offer much much more. Mic Modelling, Harmony, FX's, Voice Modelling and so on.....
Regards James
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#328952 - 07/17/11 04:57 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: Irishacts]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
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Hi Tony. I don't mean to be rude, but you really are not up to speed on all this. I've had singers in my Studio who should have been shot and put out of their misery, yet they leave the Studio sounding amazing.
For years I've been using pitch correction, adding Vibrato, Breath, Growl, Rasp and many other aspects of Voice Modelling Technology to singers voices. I even have Gender Change technology by where a guy can sing and do female harmony to his own songs.
The only thing this video demonstrates is just how little people are aware of what has been on the market for the last 10 years.
I'm really shocked by that...!!!!
Regards James. James Hi, Nice to see you back posting. As you can see I have gone down the T4 route, still got your favourite pet the Audya , I nearly bought a MS hells I am glad I didn't, they are completely off radar. James can you do a short video before and after like the T4, it would put an end to all this and perhaps this post once and for all, and if you want a dummy who can’t sing, I will come across , perhaps DANNY BOY I could really ruin it for you without correction turned on and perhaps with it turned on. Anyway have we missed anything of the MS R&D or not, still not seen any video, you know most stuff is sold on the web and the good Yamaha demos sell KB, this cannot be denied. Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey
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#328956 - 07/17/11 05:16 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
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Hi Tony. As you can see I have gone down the T4 route, still got your favourite pet the Audya Good for you. I was only playing a T4 last week for a few hours. It is a great sounding keyboard. Easy to operate and instant gratification. I nearly bought a MS hells I am glad I didn't, they are completely off radar Not sure it would have been the right choice for you if something like a Tyros 4 appeals to you. They are nothing alike. The Meidastation is certainly not off the radar through. Activity is on other forums that's all. The new Rack is on the way, beta version of 5.1 are online... there's lots of good work being done. James can you do a short video before and after like the T4, it would put an end to all this and perhaps this post once and for all, and if you want a dummy who can’t sing, I will come across , perhaps DANNY BOY I could really ruin it for you without correction turned on and perhaps with it turned on. To be honest I would only see it as a waste of my time. The guy in the video is fooling you all into thinking that this is dead simple when it's not. He has sequenced in every single note he is going to sing into the keyboard, and the notes he is playing on the keyboard mean nothing. They only advance the sequence to the next note. So, not only is he not playing the song, none of the notes he’s playing have anything to do with the song either other than to advance the sequence. And you guys are impressed with that ? Dropping 4 grand on a keyboard so you don't have to play it and don't have to hear a voice that sounds anything like your own ? If you want to do that, just buy a CD of someone else and pretend it's you. you know most stuff is sold on the web and the good Yamaha demos sell KB, this cannot be denied. True... but it is also shocking just how little people know about what they are buying. Selling a Yamaha to a Yamaha user is like shooting fish in a barrel. Regards James
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#328958 - 07/17/11 06:02 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: Tony Hughes]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Can you rig a demo with the pitch correction, it would be interesting I think for everyone, would it take much doing.
Tony
I don't think we'll see a demo the equal of the one Craig has done...just excuses...it can only be done on the Tyros4. I suspect Craig's software will be picked up by Yamaha if enough interest is shown, and there appears to be a great deal, judging by the number of views on this thread. Tyros4 is is selling so well, it needs nothing to boost it's popularity amongst the hobbyists and the pros,(witness the huge number of YouTube videos-more than any other TOTL arranger introduced this year) but, I have a feeling Craig's software will help add a bunch more. Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328960 - 07/17/11 06:24 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: Tony Hughes]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Also the PA3 sounds not as natural like the T4. There is nothing to find with the same result as the T4 on you-tube. I am also curios why Mr Knudsen not respond on all the questions about this movie ,Maybe its Fake ?
Impuls Impuls, There are just not the numbers of Korgs sold to Yamaha, in fact not that many other KBs to Yamaha, Yamaha have the money to throw at design and software, the other just don't. Thats why we don't see any good demos, its a fact of life. Tony The results on the Tyros4, even to the uneducated ear, indicate that it is Craig's natural voice coming through the speakers, and, although the Pa3X vocal processor can do pitch correct, it can't do it to the degree that Craig has done with the T4's VH-2. Maybe it can, if Craig was to apply a version of his software to the Helicon unit, but, methinks this will probably be exclusive to Yamaha, if the interest remains high. Tony, all one has to do is watch YouTube and the vast number of Tyros4 videos, done by amateur and pro alike...it appears to be a runaway success both for the home market and the pro OMB, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it is Yamaha's best selling Tyros model. The PA3X's lack of "Wow!" to users and potential buyers is quite likely due to the allotment of Korg's limited R&D money...it seems that most of it went on the new Kronos (very nice instrument, by the way) and little was left for the PA3X other than a new coat of black paint and a few added features, like the Chord Sequencer (which, apparently, isn't as much of a doddle to use as expected). In regards to Impulse's question...no, the video is genuine and not fake. Craig has done other work for Yamaha of equal cleverness. Ian PS...I see Vangelis is interested in an Audya.
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328963 - 07/17/11 06:42 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: Anthony Johnson]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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The main thing is, that if it does work, it will be a great move forward for the average home player and maybe someone who entertains the oldies and it won't entail carrying a cartload of extremely expensive equipment to do it. Tony
Anthony, there will be a few from Yamaha's competitor's with their sour grapes responses, but, if the number of hits this thread has had, in only several days (almost 2500 at my last count), is any indication, it seems to be something in which people are very interested. And, like you say, it won't involve carrying a cartload of extremely expensive equipment...just your trusty Tyros4. Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328964 - 07/17/11 06:45 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
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Tony, Wrong, Korg sells many more arrangers than Yamaha IF you consider world wide sales. Turkey buys those things like we buy flat screen TV's.
But any how, I still have not seen a demo/prformance that is as good as the one I posted on an 'arranger' with no PRO add on modules, studio engineers etc involved. Using a non singer.
James, the demo you posted is not valid in this scenario..THAT GUY CAN SING.
I am aware of a lot of the things used in the studios...and they are cool...but, can you find us a demo/performance of someone that cannot sing, on the PA3X that is this good?? I hope so, as I would love to hear it. (No external equipment allowed). And, It has to show what the Yamaha video did , the singer is way off pitch (I'm not even that bad!) and the sound must be natural and not digital sounding.
Many of us out here, that are not good singers would like to be able to sing on key for our own enjoyment, family ect. we are not talking PRO's here.
_________________________
Lee S.
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#328967 - 07/17/11 07:16 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Ian, I'm a litle confused now...according to the post respose Eileen (psrtutorial) said this is already a done deal, people already know how to do it?? So why do we need anything else from Yamaha or Craig?? Thanks, I'm only aware of Eileen's post...I have not tried out what settings she indicated. I have a feeling Craig's software adds more, but time will tell. BTW, Lee, do you actually feel that Korg has sold more PA3X's than Yamaha has sold Tyros4? Remember, the PA3X was introduced a bit later....according to a friend of mine on Korg forums, the instrument is only now getting into people's hands, and is working through a few initial bugs. Another thing I don't understand...why are we seeing so few YouTube videos from PA3X owners...maybe it's because of what I suggested above? One would imagine that, with such a fine TOTL instrument, there would be many videos showcasing it's sound and new features...T4 owners don't seem to have any problems posting lots of performances...one player, Joost, is doing a weekly and totally improvised showcase with a Tyros4, using nothing but on-board styles and factory One Touch Settings...in other words, and out-of-the-box instrument. His performance is well worth a listen. It's very strange we do not see similar performances by Korg PA3X users, if there are as many as you say. Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328968 - 07/17/11 07:19 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
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Hi James,I fully understand your argument and you are probably correct ( after all, I know next to nothing about any of this technology ) BUT, how much equipment do you have to do these same tricks and what did it cost? Well you don't need to drop 3 Grand on one like me, you can get the Voice Works Plus rack for in around 500 USD and that comes with full on Voice Modelling, Harmony and more... Here's some practical demo's of actual real world use. Voice Modelling Demo + Pitch Tracking of what he plays on the keys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgJS6nLKKNYRealistic Harmony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uspU-ev_vWQIt may well be that we're being fooled by the YouTube video - we'll have to see as more becomes known. I myself have doubts but have an open mind at this stage. Well it does what it does, so.... there's no trick there. Just beware of the fact that you do have to sequence in every note your going to sing and then advance the sequence during the performance. Also don't forget, it will not sound like your voice at all. I'm all for this technology, but not in the fashion Yamaha are promoting in this video. They are taking serious technology and making it into a gimmick. I'd much rather see someone drop 500 bucks on a Voice Works Plus and have their natural voice polished and improved without the need to sequence anything. You just play your keyboard and sing. To me that's far more rewarding. The main thing is, that if it does work, it will be a great move forward for the average home player and maybe someone who entertains the oldies and it won't entail carrying a cartload of extremely expensive equipment to do it. I see two things there. 1: This is only an opportunity for Yamaha to sell something that you will get a laugh out of at home. Nobody will use it live, and you can be sure many will lack the ability to sequence the notes. For that, Yamaha will no doubt be on hand to sell you midi files at a cost. 2: It all so sad when there are real products out there you could be using live. Regards James
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#328970 - 07/17/11 07:28 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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James, for what this feature is designed for....having the MIDI of the song you are going to play is FINE...it is kind of a kaoroke. But it would work fine at home or elsewhere for someone to sing with. This is not a live PRO gigging musicians tool. Well, it could be used in a special situation...how many here can sing songs from Phantom of the Opera??? ON KEY??? Not many...so you see it may have some applicibility for anyone.
One other question...since I am out of sync with the Korg PA3X..did they fix the TONS of bad sounds coming forward on the PA3 that were on the PA2?? That's one BIG reason I sold mine??? I sent 3 pages of bugs in the sounds to Korg, never heard a word back. I agree, Lee, this is probably not intended as a pro gigging tool, however, I'm sure some pros will find some very creative uses for it. It is intended to be FUN mostly, and, quite frankly, it is going to be a real hoot to demo, if it comes to fruition, which, I think it will. It will work, not only on commercial-type SMF (many available for free on the Internet), but others as well, including those you make yourself on the instrument. We all like to have FUN and get the most out of our instruments, I know I do. Ian PS...were there that many bad sounds in the PA2X? Hopefully the matter has been looked after by Korg in the PA3X. PSS...2588 views of this thread at my last count...appears to be a lot of interest.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#328975 - 07/17/11 08:21 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
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James, Any standard MIDI will work, so what effort is there in that?? That's not true. If your going to sing far out of tune like this guy is doing, then you MUST sequence in the notes your supposed to be singing into the song. Which is exactly what he did. Look at what notes he's playing on the keyboard too. He is only using the keys to step through the sequence. He is not singing what he's playing. All you do is tell it which MIDI channel to use. Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. How on earth do you expect the software to magically know what the melody of any song is ? He’s not using Chord Recognition. Automatic “Auto Tune” or Chord Recognition corrections only works off Pitch, key and Scales specified before you sing the song and it can only correct notes that are out by a few cents. It is impossible to correct notes that are entirely wrong without actually sequencing what your supposed to be singing. This is a simply and obvious fact...!!!! If voice live can do EXACTLY this,,, I want to see it. And if I actually went to the bother of proving it to you, what would that achieve ? I already know it's possible as does anyone using Pitch Correction Rack units or software. Regards James.
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#328979 - 07/17/11 09:05 AM
Re: You will not believe this!!!!!
[Re: leeboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Any standard MIDI will work, so what effort is there in that?? All you do is tell it which MIDI channel to use.
If voice live can do EXACTLY this,,, I want to see it. At the last Sweetwater gearfest I ask the guys from TC and they said, no we can not have you play notes and have the pitch correction follow...
You're right, Lee, pretty well any standard midi file will work, as long as it has the melody notes. Of course it's easy to make your own, too. You then set the midi channel so the VH-2 can track the melody. Pretty simple, but, very effective indeed. As far as I can tell, playing the notes in the right hand has nothing to do with the actual pitch being sung, but is used to advance the midi file...there is a feature in the Clavinova where you play along with a midi file, and the lights above the keys show you which note to play next...it has a mode where it will wait for you to play the correct note, and thus advance further in the song. The Tyros4 has the same feature, but does not have the lights. I believe Craig is using that "wait" mode to advance the SMF in the video. It appears the majority of those negatively criticizing this great feature are the ones who don't have, or can't have, it on their arranger vocal harmonizer. I think it will be a great addition. Ian PS...your thread has over 2600 views and climbing fast...awesome!
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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