Have a listen Guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-0W0lwuJzo

Regards

Col

I really liked that...

Tell us more about how you did that...Style file/midi file, effect on vocal...

It totally had the right feel...

I thought your guitar emulation was very good but near the end of it (last 8 bars or so?) it slid back into keyboard riffs...

Nice job...keep it coming, man...

Hi Bill

I only wish it was me, I can't find a style on the my Pa2x to match.

Kind Regards

Col

I believe this guy builds his own styles. Very good at it, too.

Nice sounding performance. The guy simply played the keyboard and sang along to a (commercial?) midi file utilizing the PA3X's vocal harmonizer.
It's obvious because when he's playing the guitar solo and concurrently operating the PB stick with his LH (beginning @ 2:47),
the song's chords continue to change without him having to trigger the changes himself.
I would love to hear this same song performed on the PA3X, but instead, performed in 'auto accompaniment' arranger mode.

The PA3x does have a chord sequencer, are you sure its not just repeating the previous chord sequence that was played.

Bill

its not a midi file. Its a style the guy wrote himself that works specifically for the Purple Rain song. This is the same guy i tried to persuade Dom from Liontracs to use to custom make styles for the arranger aspect of the Mediastation.

hi Spaulding:
If an auto accomp. style was used, how do you account for (@ 2:47 and on) this guy's left hand exclusively dedicated to operating the PB stick, and not required to trigger the song's chord changes?
The only way this would be possible in auto accompaniment style mode would be if the PA3X's 'on the fly' chord sequencer feature was utilized.
If this is the case, this video's an impressive demonstration of the PA3X's chord sequencer, and it's ability to 'free up' the player to fully utilize the PB stick on guitar solos etc.

The question now is:
Where in the video does it show him actually activating the chord sequencer (into record mode) of which requires him to press 'two buttons' at once, and then later, stop recording and initiate chord sequencer playback.
Where on the PA3X are the chord sequencer function buttons located?
Can anyone verify where on the video it shows the chord sequencer recorder actually being activated, and then later played back?
Thanks.

no thats not the only way scott. Its definately a style. Look closely at 2.34 he presses the autofill button which can be programmed to trigger the next variation up or down. The Korg can have up to 4 Variations . You can see that he checks very shortly after,that the next variation has been triggered. You can programme up to 32 bars in any variation if my memory serves me correct . what he most likely has done is programmed those progression for the end of the song so that they have looped up to the maximum 32 bars and then go back from Bar 1 and start again. He can then solo forever whilst it is looping and if he has programmed up to 32 bars in that variation you wont even realise that the style has been looped or where the loop has ended as he can play nice bass and drum variations within 32 bars adding the illusion of live ness before you even realise that it looped back to Bar 1. Therefore he can do the guitar solo and pitch bends etc to his hearts content. Notice that in his guitar solo he never ventures into the lower register as this is quite possibly because the way he has set the keybaord up, it will recognise chords in the left hand playing area.

Its a technique i use many times so that you can keep the apparent liveness of playing that a true sequenced track cannot allow.

Hi Guys

Stalion the guy who created the styles has made them available to download

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=64332

Now all you need is practice and a proper keyboard lol

I don't think he's using the chord sequencer as spalding says it's a well programed variation, just before he starts the solo he hits a fill button the an program change then a variation button. (very clever)

Regards

Col

I am not a professional but I thought arranger keyboards were made for the purpose of programing different chords, sounds, and style changes through the sequencer. I can do this with the Technics keyboard using the control function in the sequencer. When a song is arranged it makes all of the changes at certain measures and the song is not a midi. You the person makes the song and add all of the different chords and changes. I also observed TOSTIE'S performance on the Tyros, which was very well done, I counted him making various changes 32 times while playing. If you program these changes in you can eliminate moving around all over the keyboard. This is very hard to do when you are reading music and looking for buttons.

RC ... I agree with you ... If this guys makes his own styles, I think it might be a self made sequence as opposed to a midi file ... although I am not sure if there is a difference between a self made sequence or a self made midi file ?!?

I agree with Scott, he's using a pre-recorded midi, possibly sequenced by him. At 2:20 I heard a Hammond organ type sound come out of nowhere, and this was another hint he was playing along with a midi, and not a style. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. Don't want to go down that 'right or wrong' road AGAIN. To each his own.

If it is style and freely available, can someone please post it, or provide a link for download?


Questions about the Chord Sequencer that was used, according to spalding
Can you really insert the chord sequencer into a midi, then have it automatically activated without playing the left hand at all, or never clicking on the CS button, as was apparent in this video? Can one then save and share this auto CS midi with other PX users? Is this freely available as a download or link?

Can the chord sequencer be activated by a foot switch?
Do you think that was possible in this video?

Just curious as to the details on how he may have used the chord sequencer.


No matter, it was a nice performance, and thanks Saswick for posting, and to spalding for his knowledge of the PAxX.

Of course it was a sequence playing...in the very begining of the video ...he starts the seq player...He may be using the chord changes from his left hand for the harmony changes..as for the fills and variations...I think that is show only...

He may have sequenced this previously in arranger mode, and added the extra tracks (organ ) etc....but the performance was a sequence.......that happens to be the best way for a complete performance..

Hi Larry

The guy is a regular on the Korg forum and has explained some of the methods on the this link:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=64310

There is also a very interesting discussion on looping a variation (Korg's vars are up to 32 bars long)

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=63855

As was discussed earlier about the guitar solo he is actually playing over a variation which is looping. This is explained
on the above post.

The hammond sound apears when he changes the STS and the Hammond is then the lower left hand sound. ( STS is the same as yamaha OTS )

As I posted before the style is available for download but obviously for just the Pa3x.

There is a similar style on the Pa2x which I am playing about with at moment

Kind Regards

Col

these atre all techniques that have existed and been used on arranger keyboards going back to the 'i' series. But if you dont hold onto your keyboard to get under the hood and swap it out for the next one , you wont even realise what these instruments are capable of.

For example i use the STS to drop in and out sounds in the arranger without using the slider for speed so at the press of a button i can have a hammaond playing in th accompaniment or strings and then strip the sound out . These are all tricks you learn to apply to arranger playing when you hold onto your instrument . Thats why i have taken a 'Diki' like stance in terms of his relationship with the G70. Until an arranger comes up with new features that i might actually use and has at least 80% different sounds and styles that i would actuially use , then i am not changing from my PA1X. If i want a new style , i programme one. If i want chord sequencer features i programme it into a style on say the 4th variation .

These are the technigues the style programmer for purple rain uses. I am very familiar with his work.

Hi Guys,
sorry, you are WRONG, it's a style. He was kind enough to share it.
At last , someone to showcase what can be done with a Korg style.
I know what can be done, but I haven't got the musical ability to record. haahaa.

Variations 1 to 3 are regular arranger chord tracks, where you play your own chord progression. He's also included guitar mode track & modified drum kits.
Variation 4 , he's recorded like an intro, with the chord progression built in. 32 bars long. Brilliant. Again , he's used Guitar Mode to record the guitar track.
I doubt the chord Sequencer was used. No need.
In theory, one could have a different chord progression, for each one of the 6 cv's that makes up a variation . Each cv ( chord variation) could be triggered by hitting a different chord type ( maj/min/7th etc)
I did something similar as an example for one of the korg members. The owner had a PA800 & wanted a chord progression in a style part, so they could practice playing over the top of it.
PA800 doesn't have chord sequencer. I basically recorded one of the variations ( in sequencer quick record mode ) with the chord progression of Begin the Beguine. Saved it as a midifile, imported it into the korg style maker as variation 1.
Variation 1 cv 1 now plays the first 16 bars of chord sequence of Begin Bequine, the rest of the variations play normal arranger mode.
If I wanted to record the next 16 bars, based on a different chord sequence , even, a different variation, provide the instruments were the same, I could do the same thing again, and save it to variation 1 cv2 and I'd still have the other 3 variations in regular chord mode.
Vari cv1 gets triggered by Maj chord, cv2 gets triggered by Min chord. Chord type is irrelavent in this instant.
Basically it's handy for doing a solo for a song specific style.


[quote=lahawk]



Questions about the Chord Sequencer that was used, according to spalding
Can you really insert the chord sequencer into a midi, then have it automatically activated without playing the left hand at all, or never clicking on the CS button, as was apparent in this video? Can one then save and share this auto CS midi with other PX users? Is this freely available as a download or link?

Can the chord sequencer be activated by a foot switch?
Do you think that was possible in this video?

Nice Rikki, well put. Give me a little more time on my Ps800 and I will come over for some lessons. (Smile)

Hey, you’re good.

John C.

I think this can also be done on a Tyros.

Hi Rikki,

Many thanks for the detailed explanation on how Salvatore created that custom style with variation 4 including a chord progression built in , which allowed him to fully dedicate his performance to that impressive guitar solo, and to freely & so expressively operate the PB/Mod stick. This would not have been possible to do in regular style variation mode.

Earlier today, I spoke on the telephone with Sz buddy Manuel Dorantes (both a Korg & Yamaha style programming professional), and not only did he explain the same thing to me as Riki just did, but he also informed me that this same type of style variation with a 'built in chord progression' can be accomplished on Yamaha arrangers too.
He even sent me a custom Yamaha style to showcase it. I was pretty blown away!
This is an exciting revelation because until now, I've always felt frustrated when performing solos in 'auto accomp' mode, when attempting to emulate instruments that so heavily rely on the pitch/mod wheel. Manuel says he will spend some time with me on Skype next week to explain in more detail how to create a built in chord progression style variation on the Yamaha Tyros 4, so if I'm smart enough to absorb it, I'll of share what I learn here.

In the meantime, a great big kudos to Salvatore for posting his outstanding PA3X keyboard 'auto accomp mode' rendition of Purple Rain.
I'm also impressed with the live sounding presence of the PA3X drums and VH.

Hi John,
thank you.
Well, if you ever need help to put a variation with a chord sequence for a song specific style, ( how's that for a mouthful)
let me know. haa haa
I've done an awful lot of experimentation on what can & can't be done, pages of it. Gee, I can talk. haahaa

Actually, something I've been wanting to put together for a while is a medley, don't know if you realize you can have different tempo's & time signatures in each of the style parts, suit a medley style perfectly.

Hi Scott,
that's great. I must admit I've never tried it in my psr 1500, but I have done it in One Man Band arranger software (uses psr styles).
It's literally to do with the ntt settings. Intro's have chord progressions, so the ntt setting for ( non drum tracks) is Melody.
I assume you'd just do the same for a variation with a chord progression set ntt to melody instead of chord.

If it was me, I'd be inclined to record your progression variation as a midifile. Turn it into it's own style . One of Michael Beddersoms programs Or Jorgens programs may be able to turn it into a style for you. I used to use One Man Band as a style editor. Then use the assembly function to copy the variation into the original style & save as user style.

The less of the style that is exposed to the editor , the better, just in case they alter settings or something.
Manual will be able to advise you on that one.

It's certainly not as straight forward to do as it is in the korg ( korg can load midifile directly back into the style part) but if it's useful to you, it's worth persisting with.

With the korg I could also use one of the fills for this. The korg fills can be 32 bars long also if they're tapped twice , they'll keep looping like a variation.

Anyway, if I can be of any help, let me know. I still have my little psr1500 sitting on the sidelines. It's been a few years since I dabbled with yammie styles . I still sometimes use One Man Band for my psr to korg conversions, so I'm fairly familiar with the style structure.

Hi Guys

I posted this link on the Korg Forum FAO Stalion (Sal) this is his reply:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=416057#416057


Regards

Col

Hi Scott
sorry, setting in Yamaha is "Bypass" not Melody. Melody in Yamaha is a different setting to Melody in Korg.

Just tried something bit bizzare with one of my psr 1500 styles. May or may not work with more sophisticated styles, but did work with mine.

Got my psr style ( bequine.prs ) renamed the .prs extension to .mid. In short turned it into a midifile. Recorded a quick 7 bar song ( supposed to be 8, I can't count ) with chord progression based on vari 1.

Loaded my midifile progression into my sequencer, removed the header bar ( program changes etc) & copied it/or saved it, depending on sequencer.

Loaded bequine style ( midifile) into my sequencer. ( old XG Works program) I deleted all the data beyond the first bar leaving only the header ( ie program changes etc.) Next I removed all the data past the marker for vari 1.
I load ( copied) in chord progression variation . Pressed "SAVE" not "save as"
Went back to where my original Bequine stlye, currently called Bequine.mid is saved use the "ORGANIZE" "UNDO" function, turned it back into Bequine.prs file.
I now have a style, with only my chord progression variation I can use the ASSEMBLY function to copy vari 1 into an original version of the style, change NTT setting & save it as a user style..

First came across this strange anomaly a few years ago, but had forgotten about it, ie the rename function, always aware I could turn earlier psr styles into .mid files, but not that they could be turned back. Probably not perfectly, but maybe good enough for this exercise.

Could also copy the chord progression into a full style, by removing one of the variations, but a bit more complex



[quote=rikkisbears]
It's literally to do with the ntt settings. Intro's have chord progressions, so the ntt setting for ( non drum tracks) is Melody.

this is great. Its exactly what the synthzone is supposed to be doing !! Helping each other discover and utilize new ways of making music.

Hear! Hear! certainly beats all the negative posts.

Col

Right on, Spalding!This is how a forum should work.

I think making the tyros do chord progression in part of the style is very doable...haven't really tried it in depth, but the capability is there...Rikki's idea is great...I think using a midi file (made using that particular style) as the basis, changing the extension to "sty", and then using parts of it in the original style, would be the way to go about it.

I just got back from Newfoundland, so I'll give it a try once I'm settled in again.

Ian

Hi Guys,
came up with better solution.

Once you get hang of it, only takes a few minutes.
1.Choose style. Press Copy. Choose USB Stick. Press Save.
2.Record chord progression in sequencer & save to usb stick.
3.In PC use Rename function to change .sty or .prs etc etxension to .mid ( ie beguine.prs to beguine.mid) This turns it into midifile.


Depending on how your pc sequencer functions you basically have to merge these 2 files ( beguine .mid & chord progression .mid) into a single midi file.
I use the old XG Works program, since it doesn't have a merge function, this is the way I do it.

Load chord progression sequence in sequencer, DELETE TRACK 1. Select all the tracks & use Copy function.

Next load in Bequine midifile, don't do any saves etc , the chord progression will be overwritten by the midifile tracks, but don't worry.

Next delete all the tracks except for track 1 . midi channel 1.

Use the Paste Function & your chord progression track will reapear.

Next bring up your Markers track ( Master Track in XG Works)

Delete any Markers & Data below Marker 1 ( Main A : fn main A ) in psr1500 styles)

Press "SAVE" not save as.

Hilight Beguine .mid & press UNDO function ( found under ORGANIZE in Win7)
It turns back into beguine.prs

Load Style in yammie.
Goto PARAMETER
Change Bass Ntt to Bypass
Do same for rest of instruments ( except drums) Save

Choose the original style.

Press Digital Record.
Style Creator
BASIC. Choose main a
Change Pattern Length to suit Chord Progression Variation. Press Execute.
TAB to Assembly.
Choose Section
Double Click Rythm 1
Choose Style to copy from ( USB :Beguine:Main A Rythm 1
Do Same for all the rest of the instruments.
Save.

Good Luck

Wow Rikki, thanks for this awesome info. It must have been a lot of trial and error, and we appreciate your hard work.

Is this for the Korg or Yamaha, or both?

The only problem is the old XG Works program which (a) is no longer available and (b) is not compatible with WIN7. Is anyone aware of another program that can achieve what Rikki just described?


Rikki should charge for all these valuable tips and instructions.

Good Stuff

Hi,

the Korg arrangers (the one I know, don't know for other brands) are very flexible and any style element has the same parameter set (this back to earlier Pa80 times).

This means that if I can put a chord progression in the intro 1 (as we know being possible) this can be possible in any other place (say any Intro, any Fill/Break, any Var, any Ending).
The only difference available is between Vars (having max 6 chord variations) and the other style elements (having max 2 cv).
For the given case the NTT Table to be used is "No Transpose", that's it.

I used chord progression in variations several times (especially for song styles) and this looks very similar to the "Riff" feature available in Ketron (even if I don't how pratically this it is done in this arranger).

Actually with the "Chord Sequencer", something I was really looking at to free-up my left hand for improvvisations, I think will need less this, even if probably sometimes could be more practical (it depends).

I'm not usually discussing that much here but, as said by others, this thread looks very interesting so keep going on.

Hope this help. Cheers.

Hi Rikki,
a great big THANKS for posting your step by step procedure for creating a 'Chord Sequence imbedded Style Variation'.
I'm really excited to try this out.
I now just got to see if I can track down my copy of Yamaha XG Works and install it on my current PC.
btw: what version of XG Works are you running?

Scott

Hi,
no wholly & soley for yamaha. The only part I use for korg is change .sty extension to .mid extension. This works for majority of my yammie styles.
I have hassles with 3/4 time signatures & "serialized styles" These I load into One Man Band & resave.
I do convert my yammie styles to Korg using XG Works , but it involves a lot more than the above instructions. I think I'd have to write a book ( haa haa) because earlier yammie styles are far easier to convert than new ones.

Actually, I have XG Works running on my Win7 laptop.
You're correct, it won't load. Found a way around it . Definately trial & error, because I don't know a great deal about the workings of computers but I was determined to get it up & running.

I actually have a working copy of XGworks in my old XP Netbook.
I simply copied the "Yamaha" program folder from the netbook "program files", into my win 7 laptop "program files(86)"folder.
Opened the Yamaha folder, opened xg works folder, located the XG Works exe icon, Right Clicked & sent it to the Desktop, so I could run the program from there.
Apparently it doesn't need to be installed, maybe because it's such an old program. My version is 3.07.33
Works almost perfectly. Good enoughfor what I need it for. I can do 99% of my editing. Only thing I can't bring up is Notation Window. I get weird symbols. I can live without thatas I have notation on Real Band & Power Tracks Pro.
Only reason I still use XG Works is, it's so simple for cutting sections & moving bars & copying bars etc. & the Master Track contains all the markers & tempo changes etc.
Don't use it for recording just editing.

You could use probably any pc sequencer as long as it has "Markers" I just find XGworks the easiest. If you have any problems doing what I did, just email me.

Hi (yammie)guys,
one more thing, you MAY be able to edit pads in a pc sequencer using the renaming function ie
bell.pad change to bell.mid
All 4 pads show up in the sequencer , 1 per midi track.
Basically change extension from .pad to.mid
Load in, do a quick edit, press "save".
Then "Undo" the rename which changes it back to .pad.

Haven't tried it recently, but I did do it for my psr 1500, years ago. Maybe internal pad editing has improved since then, so may not be of benefit. ?