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#338584 - 02/03/12 10:00 AM Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2867
Loc: Tampa, FL
I've sent a feature request to Steve Demming at Yamaha, which many of you have also requested, over at PSRtutorial. I would like to solicit additional feedback helping my case to Yamaha for those who support this additional feature to MusicFinder.

To view it, please click this link:

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=16576.0

Thanks Guys and Gals


Edited by kbrkr (02/03/12 10:01 AM)
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#338588 - 02/03/12 10:30 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Yamaha needs to adopt the KORG "song book" to replace the MFD....maybe in the next arranger line of KB's...in all my Yammy arrangers I have never even used the MFD because4 of the lack of needed features...no transpose save for starters and display too small.

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#338594 - 02/03/12 11:32 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Al,

I read your request to Steve Demming and I guess we look at this in a different light.

To me, the Music Finder Directory (MFD) is merely a miniature version of a registration, but conveniently packed into a single, scrollable folder that makes access very quick and easy. Granted, the MFD only has a limited number of features, but it is a very usable feature that many entertainers never seem to utilize. Donny is a good example of this.

Registrations, on the other hand, are an extremely powerful tool. You can pretty much do anything with a registration and save those steps in two formats--a complete bank of 8 for a single song, or one song for each of the 8 slots in each bank. Now, there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. Eddie (Btweengigs) likes to utilize an entire bank for a single song. In doing this he can quickly look up a song in a manner very similar to using the MFD. The songs are automatically listed alphabetically because the entire bank is named by the song title. You merely press the Registration button, then using the Data Scrolling Wheel scroll do the list to the song you wish to select, press the select button and you're ready to go. You can even do this while playing another song and that song will not come into play until you press the select button.

The same is true with the MFD, but not many folks are willing to take the time to create their own, custom MFD and create registrations as well. Creating a custom MFD can either be done on the keyboard, or by using Michael Bedesem's Music Finder View program, which is downloadble at no charge. It's very easy to use and tailor made for each keyboard model.

If it saved transpose information, DNJ would love it! But, the MFD has never saved this kind of information--that's why they have both the MFD and Registrations. The MFD does save information pertaining to: Intro, Variation, Style, Tempo, Song Title, Genre, beat, allows you to copy to a favorites list and have searchable keywords.

Now, if I recall, you want the MFD selection to link to a registration. To me, that makes no sense at all. You would have to create the MFD, then create an associated registration for the exact, same song. It's double the work for the same, end result.

I guess from my viewpoint, both the MFD and registrations are both powerful tools, but they are different tools/features on the same keyboard. To overcome some of the limitations, particularly the lack of saving transposition, I merely indicate the key that I play and sing the song in the song's title. For example, "Country (C) Roads" in the MFD tells me that I perform this song in the key of "C". "A Fool Such (F) as I" indicates that I do this song in "F". So, if you're one of those guys that plays everything physically using "C" you know where you must transpose to just by looking at the title. In a registration, that transposition information can be saved and transposed automatically when the registration button for that song is depressed.

Hope this helps,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#338596 - 02/03/12 11:39 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Gary, I use a method similar to yours. How about that!! smile Wonder where I learned to do that.

I use custom MFD files on a regular basis in conjuntction with registrations. I would however like to see Yamaha implement the MFD to work like Korg's Songbook does.

Al, I did post over at the PSR forum "ditto to your comments".

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#338610 - 02/03/12 02:16 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
And while were at it .....maybe Tyros 5 will have a
chord sequencer, VH3, & updated MFD also...bigger display, smaller overall footprint & BLACK. I mean they already have great sounds /styles just update the features to customers wants/needs.


Edited by Dnj (02/03/12 02:18 PM)

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#338622 - 02/03/12 09:33 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
jedi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1125
Loc: Merrimack, N.H.
I say just add speakers and keep it SILVER , and I`ll buy 2 !! smile

Or they could just put a real keybed in a TOTL PSR and add PLASTIC buttons smile , that would work too !

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#338624 - 02/03/12 09:55 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: jedi]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: jedi
I say just add speakers and keep it SILVER , and I`ll buy 2 !! smile

Or they could just put a real keybed in a TOTL PSR and add PLASTIC buttons smile , that would work too !



I actually like the rubber buttons on the s910...but the color looks so HOME KB looking blush ....speakers I can take or leave..

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#338654 - 02/04/12 09:59 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: travlin'easy]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2867
Loc: Tampa, FL
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Al,

I read your request to Steve Demming and I guess we look at this in a different light.

To me, the Music Finder Directory (MFD) is merely a miniature version of a registration, but conveniently packed into a single, scrollable folder that makes access very quick and easy. Granted, the MFD only has a limited number of features, but it is a very usable feature that many entertainers never seem to utilize. Donny is a good example of this.

Registrations, on the other hand, are an extremely powerful tool. You can pretty much do anything with a registration and save those steps in two formats--a complete bank of 8 for a single song, or one song for each of the 8 slots in each bank. Now, there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. Eddie (Btweengigs) likes to utilize an entire bank for a single song. In doing this he can quickly look up a song in a manner very similar to using the MFD. The songs are automatically listed alphabetically because the entire bank is named by the song title. You merely press the Registration button, then using the Data Scrolling Wheel scroll do the list to the song you wish to select, press the select button and you're ready to go. You can even do this while playing another song and that song will not come into play until you press the select button.

The same is true with the MFD, but not many folks are willing to take the time to create their own, custom MFD and create registrations as well. Creating a custom MFD can either be done on the keyboard, or by using Michael Bedesem's Music Finder View program, which is downloadble at no charge. It's very easy to use and tailor made for each keyboard model.

If it saved transpose information, DNJ would love it! But, the MFD has never saved this kind of information--that's why they have both the MFD and Registrations. The MFD does save information pertaining to: Intro, Variation, Style, Tempo, Song Title, Genre, beat, allows you to copy to a favorites list and have searchable keywords.

Now, if I recall, you want the MFD selection to link to a registration. To me, that makes no sense at all. You would have to create the MFD, then create an associated registration for the exact, same song. It's double the work for the same, end result.

I guess from my viewpoint, both the MFD and registrations are both powerful tools, but they are different tools/features on the same keyboard. To overcome some of the limitations, particularly the lack of saving transposition, I merely indicate the key that I play and sing the song in the song's title. For example, "Country (C) Roads" in the MFD tells me that I perform this song in the key of "C". "A Fool Such (F) as I" indicates that I do this song in "F". So, if you're one of those guys that plays everything physically using "C" you know where you must transpose to just by looking at the title. In a registration, that transposition information can be saved and transposed automatically when the registration button for that song is depressed.

Hope this helps,

Gary cool


Gary,

I understand and do use the registrations .
However, having a programming/technical background, I look at things as Objects that interrelate to each other like the following List.


MusicFinderDatabase
-------------------

MFD Entry ------+
|
Song Object ----+
|
+--Registration Object
------------------------|
+--Style Object
|
+--Voice Object
|
+--Mic Setting Object
|
+--VH Object
|
+--Multipad Object

Items that relate to Registration Objects:

Song Object
Name
Style
Tempo
Beat
Transpose
Artist
FileName/Location
Style Object
Style Name
Type (User, INternal, External)
Temp
Beat
Transpose
Voice Object
Name
Effects
VH Harmony

..
..
..
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#338656 - 02/04/12 10:08 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
The registrations are a good way to do things regarding Saving all info vs the MFD at this time ...BUT......only 8 or ten songs per page is difficult when you have hundreds of songs to search thru page after page this is where the MFD COULD be a great tool if it saved ALL INFORMATION and REG, SMF, MP3, Lyrics all in one concise list to just scroll thru quickly in live play....and the display screen are has to be bigger 8" to 10" inches square view to mostly alleviate scrolling to a second page if you use lyrics, charts, etc, .....and all those hokey picture icons and silly colors aren't needed in a pro arranger also imo.....workarounds will always be the norm for Yamaha arranger players until they listen to the musicians and make serious changes for navigational stability for live play......sound & styles they pretty much have down pat.

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#338662 - 02/04/12 11:04 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Time for a reality check smile

Now guys..don't go off the deep end...just think about what I am about to say...It wouldn't hurt for you to have some on hands experience too.. wink


Yamaha is the poorest of the modern day arrangers when it comes to the features mentioned above....and beyond what is mentioned.. grin


Korg's songbook is praised by most..and even owners like StephenM, that owned the Korg and Roland, has stated he thinks the "Songbook" edges the G70 "user program"....although I disagree smile

Biggest problem with the "songbook"...it is attached to Korg's operating system....In many ways the Korg OS reminds me of the Roland G1000...deep capabilities, but a learning curve that takes time to learn....and also needless routing to get the job done (actually the G1000 was more efficient in this respect)..

This brings me to center court... grin ...The G70 has the absolute best operating system, for getting things done..in a way that makes sense...you NEVER have to go out of the mode you are working to continue the process of editing and saving...It has the best tools for all of the above..

As an example ..when you need to use a sequencer on the Korg to edit a SMF....you have to load in another mode and re-save the edits..before going back to your performing mode...None of this flows at all..

G70 totally dominates here....

This is why I give Roland's "User programs" the edge over the Korg's "songbook"...a BIG edge.. grin

The recall feature on the G70 is also the best...I currently have about 2,000 User programs at my finger tip for immediate selection..the search is also easy..sure you can scroll with the wheel, but you can search via the finder feature...same design for SMF search, and style search..

The G70 also has software built in that allows the conversion of my "old" G1000 user programs..they are extremely accurate too..

I also retain about 2,000 styles ready for selection.....and about 4,000 SMF's..ready to go..

I just hope that down the road, Roland will not screw up the G70 design, and use a Korg type OS in the future smile...If so ..then I would have to switch over to Ketron grin

Or just keep the G70...and the best "user program" concept.. wink
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#338663 - 02/04/12 11:06 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Hi Al et al:

As many of you already know, I've requested and repeatedly pushed for the "Yamaha Music Finder" to link to and call up a Registration Bank File ever since I first purchased my Yamaha Tyros 1 when it was first released. This has included not only having Steve Deming pass on my request to Yamaha Japan (yielding no response from them), but also bringing this up personally to both Martin Harris and Simon Inkley when meeting with them at Namm. Funny thing is that they both acknowledged the great benefit of linking the MFD to Registration settings to make MusicFinder a convenient one stop place to call up your entire song repertoire (by name in a single database) & automatically pull up all it'stored associated settings (transpose, split point, etc) in REG as well.

I certainly hope some day Yamaha Japan will finally see the light, but at this point (8+ years later eek2 ), seriously doubt it's going to happen anytime soon. I only hope Yamaha Japan will prove me wrong.

Scott

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#338664 - 02/04/12 11:09 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Having used both Roland and Korg systems, I find the PA3X a little better suited for me than Roland, but both are excellent.
Not sure if PA3X is exactly the same as previous models.
I also like the Audya system a lot; it is totally unlike previous Ketron OS.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#338667 - 02/04/12 11:33 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: Scottyee]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Scottyee
Hi Al et al:

As many of you already know, I've requested and repeatedly pushed for the "Yamaha Music Finder" to link to and call up a Registration Bank File ever since I first purchased my Yamaha Tyros 1 when it was first released. This has included not only having Steve Deming pass on my request to Yamaha Japan (yielding no response from them), but also bringing this up personally to both Martin Harris and Simon Inkley when meeting with them at Namm. Funny thing is that they both acknowledged the great benefit of linking the MFD to Registration settings to make MusicFinder a convenient one stop place to call up your entire song repertoire (by name in a single database) & automatically pull up all it'stored associated settings (transpose, split point, etc) in REG as well.

I certainly hope some day Yamaha Japan will finally see the light, but at this point (8+ years later eek2 ), seriously doubt it's going to happen anytime soon. I only hope Yamaha Japan will prove me wrong.

Scott


Scott thanx for trying......

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#338701 - 02/04/12 05:01 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: Fran Carango]
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
Time for a reality check smile



Korg's songbook is praised by most..and even owners like StephenM, that owned the Korg and Roland, has stated he thinks the "Songbook" edges the G70 "user program"....although I disagree smile


This brings me to center court... grin ...The G70 has the absolute best operating system, for getting things done..in a way that makes sense...you NEVER have to go out of the mode you are working to continue the process of editing and saving...It has the best tools for all of the above..

As an example ..when you need to use a sequencer on the Korg to edit a SMF....you have to load in another mode and re-save the edits..before going back to your performing mode...None of this flows at all..

G70 totally dominates here....

This is why I give Roland's "User programs" the edge over the Korg's "songbook"...a BIG edge.. grin


I also retain about 2,000 styles ready for selection.....and about 4,000 SMF's..ready to go..
nd the best "user program" concept.. wink


Fran,

Maybe I missed the boat, didn't have the patience or just didn't give the G70 enough time, but I gotta say I had one hell of a time juggle trying to get my mind around exactly how how "user programs" functioned. If I could have even found a way to store 500 tunes give or take for ready access I would have been one happy Roland owner. I've toyed with the idea of getting one for use in my home studio.....but as time goes on they are becoming a rare commodity.

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#338706 - 02/04/12 05:24 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: Stephenm52]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
You know I sold my G70....& I have sold many others ...but the G70 for some reason is one arranger I always missed & rethink about all the great features keyfeel, makeup tools, and of course the rich sound..its was just the weight & size that just wasn't practical for my Everyday day gigging needs. My E60 & E50 filled the void for a while but it just wasn't a G70.. wink

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#338707 - 02/04/12 05:25 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Al,

The way it appears, at least to me, is that you, and DNJ, and maybe a few others, want the Music Finder Directory (MFD) to be expanded to cover all the bases that a registration covers. Now that makes perfectly good sense to me. Doing that would allow Yamaha to eliminate Registrations entirely, which means an entire board of switches could be eliminated and a significant reduction in cost may also come into play--great idea!

The big advantage, of course, would be the ability to scroll through a huge list of songs using either the numbered switches at the bottom of the display, or the Data Scrolling Wheel. Hopefully, Steve Demming will read this and put the information to good use.

Cheers,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#338726 - 02/04/12 08:54 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
I would love to have a "Set List" function on the Tyros. Kind of like the Master Mode on the Motif. Have a list where you can order anything on the keyboard in your performance order. Here's an example...

"Lean On Me" - Selects your registration of Lean On Me
"Brown Eyed Girl" - Selects the SMF on your HD and the sounds you need
"My Way" - Selects a WAV file from the HD and a piano to play live
"Don't Be Cruel" - Selects your Reg to use the VH2 and Style mode
"Good Luvin" - Selects a MP3 from your HD
"Heart and Soul" - Selects a Piano to play live

One mode to point to all of the information you need to build set lists for "real" gigs. Save set lists to recall at another time or to build a library of different type of sets. Perfect for 45 minute shows... 4 set gigs... playing keys in a pit orchestra with your sounds all pre ordered (advance with a foot switch).

It would be great to be able to search all aspects of your Tyros in order to build those sets. Hook up a USB keyboard and hit "Control F" to find what you are looking for with a filter built in. Search all aspects... Reg - Styles - MDB - Audio files (WAV and MP3) - MultiPads - etc. Highlight your selection and select or paste it into your list.

Make it easier and sync it with your iPod/iPhone/iPad. Create the order within an app and send the changes to the set list... in a perfect world!!
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#338728 - 02/04/12 09:00 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: shueymusic]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Yep. Korgs have been able to do this for years....actually does a bit more than what you listed too!!

I do believe Scott Yee has been asking Yamaha US for several years now to simply be able to link a registration to a MF entry...

It does not require a great deal of programming (on Yamahas part) either..Quite a small amount of code is required.

The only thing I can surmise, is that Yamaha are CHOOSING not to...and I guess when you look at the millions of folks using Yamaha arrangers, the number of those asking for this link is like one grain of sand on a beach....

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#338732 - 02/04/12 09:20 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Johnathan,

You already have that feature on the Tyros MFD--it's called favorites. And, you can customize the Favorites list and MFD using Michael Bedesem's Music Finder View program, or just build the list on the keyboard.

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#338733 - 02/04/12 09:29 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: travlin'easy]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Johnathan,

You already have that feature on the Tyros MFD--it's called favorites. And, you can customize the Favorites list and MFD using Michael Bedesem's Music Finder View program, or just build the list on the keyboard.


First of all... it should be easy to do in the keyboard instead of being done in a separate software solution. Does it put it in the order you want or is it alphabetical? Do you have to rename the songs with numbers i.e. 01-02-03??
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#338752 - 02/05/12 04:24 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: shueymusic]
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: shueymusic
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Johnathan,

You already have that feature on the Tyros MFD--it's called favorites. And, you can customize the Favorites list and MFD using Michael Bedesem's Music Finder View program, or just build the list on the keyboard.


First of all... it should be easy to do in the keyboard instead of being done in a separate software solution. Does it put it in the order you want or is it alphabetical? Do you have to rename the songs with numbers i.e. 01-02-03??


Yes it can be done right at the keyboard, it alphabetizes them, if you don't want them alphabetized then you would have to rename them. You can add files to the mfd from the USB ports or the HD. I also create separate mfd files for different gigs. They are backed up, then easily loaded from the keyboard. Nice thing about separate MFD files is they have to be only as large as the number of tunes you may be playing at a particular gig. The result is let's say an MFD file with 75 possible styles, mp3/wav or midi files.

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#338769 - 02/05/12 08:33 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Steve beat me to the punch with the answer, however, that's why I place him right up there with DonM at the top of the list of my best students. wink

Cheers,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#338770 - 02/05/12 08:45 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
MFD = "good idea" that needs major improvements

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#338776 - 02/05/12 09:27 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: Dnj]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
Thanks!! SZ is full of awesome people!!
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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