If you could design your own TOTL Arranger Workstation, irrespective of price, what feature(s) would it it have?


No promises, but they've asked me and I'm asking you.

Steve Deming

The registration memory buttons need to be back underneath the screen. This one issue has hampered what I can do significantly on the Tyros 4. No sliders needed. They do double duty with the existing buttons.

Having a Music Finder feature as is done on the Korg's Songbook. Especially, to be able to hook up an ipad or laptop and use apps like unreal book to pull up the lead sheet and set up the keyboard all at once.

http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthread...lect#Post342636

Also, to be able to do more globally such as increase the drum volume across the board.

To have it so that more standard samples can be used.

To be able to have the full title of a song in a style file instead of having to skip words and abbreviate.

I don't know how deep editing goes on Yamahas, but, from what seems to be generally acknowledged, it's not even close to that on Korg. So that might be the way to go.

Then again, from the gist of forums over the years I get the impression that Yamaha devotees are not as interested in deep editing. Who knows for sure?

Although functional, the user interface could use a major update. It looks outdated.

Improved DAW integration and a decent easy to use 'functional' onboard sequencer would be appreciated as well. Both suggestions would benefit from a larger high res screen.

Besides the regular sounds & styles updates, this are my two 'realistic' wishes. In general i'm satisfied.

Best Regards,

Joost

Steve,
Number one is great drum kits, that sound live--my pet peeve. T4 is an improvement, but there is still room for more!
Registration system could use updating, with option to call up registrations numerically. You have to go through too many steps to make changes and save them.
Copy Korg PA3X songbook and Roland Chord Sequencer.
Full time volume sliders for style parts and lead parts.
Two XLR mic inputs, at least one with phantom power.
A smaller footprint. Tyros has WAY too much wasted space. You can't even put it in a 61-note bag, and it won't fit on a lot of stands.
Personally I prefer a Joystick to Wheels, but not a big thing.
Have the pads under the keys been updated? If you use a PSR for very long, it will need the pads replaced, regardless of how light a touch you have.
Ability to replace, delete, edit factory styles.
Tyros 4 vocal harmonizer is way better than the old one, but still a little short of Ketron, Roland and Korg.
Of course, hold on to the many things you've got right!
Thanks,
DonM

Steve,

The only things I would improve on would be:

1. The Vocal Processor/Harmonizer to mimic the TC Helicon Harmony-M, or better yet, Voice-Live.

2. Drum editing features that would allow the user to edit all segments of the drums.

3. The ability to select any voice in the keyboard and place it with the Style's OTS settings without first going to the Style Creator Program first and creating a user style.

4. Expand the capabilities of the Music Finder Directory to where it can save Transpose, and also link to MIDI files.

5. Two XLR mic inputs, one with phantom power, or simply a phantom power switch that can activated. I would prefer two inputs, though, one for a guest mic that can be set up independently.

6. An auxiliary, stereo input that has it's own, independent volume adjustment, slider or electronic--either is fine.

7. A User Style button that takes you directly to the User Style area instead of going through a Style Page, then tabbing to User - too many button pushes for live performers.

Overall, I'm impressed with both the sound and quality of Yamaha's PSR and Tyros series, and I believe Yamaha should be applauded for the great strides they've made of the past two decades.

Gary

My wishes (many of which I have been requesting and posting for years) are as follows:

- PLEASE alphabetize the styles on all the style categories. The current random order is a pain when sifting through 5 or 6 pages of styles

- desperately need a SEARCH feature to quickly find styles, songs, etc

- allow all OTS to be customized and saved to the built in styles. change the deal of having to create copies of styles to do this

- more robust and useful Music Finder. As mentioned, look to Korg for how well it should be done.

- more assignable options to the sliders and the wheels. Everytthing should be assignable.

- a couple or 4 assignable buttons for you to customize per your choice

- map the tempo increase/decrease to the pedal. a way to more easily and smoothly vary the tempo during a song would go a long way in reducing the mechanical feel

- fix the sliders so they do not "jump" in and out when you first move them. makes using them frustrating and can produce huge unexpected variations in track volumes.

- increase user memory A LOT. Or ditch it all together if it isn't needed. It's just another tab to pass by when pushing buttons

- allow HD and or USB drive to be the first tab that is displayed when going to voices/files, etc. Always having to tab past internal, user, HD to get to USB takes too long.

- finally, get rid of all the menu choice buttons along the bottom of the screen and return to allowing all those be page buttons only. On some menus, you see only 2 or 3 pages and have to continually hit next over and over to get to a given page. All 8 buttons at the bottom of the screen should go to pages 1-8, 8-16, etc.

- put the on/off switch back on top

- please do something better than the existing speakers. they suck

and I also like the idea of a clock but it should be internal so that the styles and files would have the true date & time on them.

Tom G.

And three more...

- PLEASE alphabetize the styles on all the style categories. The current random order is a pain when sifting through 5 or 6 pages of styles

- desperately need a SEARCH feature to quickly find styles, songs, etc

- allow all OTS to be customized and saved to the built in styles. change the deal of having to create copies of styles to do this

And one more thing...

PLEASE fix the annoying sound thump when switching from certain OTS settings. Any Yamaha player knows what I mean there area certain styles and OTS that when you change variations you will hear an annoying loud sound and not a smooth transition. I don't know the technical term, but some have suggested this results from the effects settings on var 1 changing abruptly on var 2. Whatever it is, fix it. Korg, Roland and Technics have managed to avoid this. If Yamaha can't fix this, DO NOT SET UP THE built in OTS on any style that will cause this.

Tom G.

Sorry if I may have repeated a few of my requests above. It just shows how important they are to me!

Tom G.

Steve here are mine:
(1) Dedicated Bass Inversion button on the console

(2) A new chord recognition mode that EXACTLY mirrors Roland's "Chord Intelligence." (Yamaha's AI Fingered is close but not exactly the same, and thus it's a deterrent to switching brands.)

(3) "Batching" of chord input to prevent premature triggering of unintended chords. This problem can be ameliorated by a user adjustable delay from real time up to about 60ms (0.06 seconds.) I believe Korg batches their chord note input, and the software arranger Live Styler has a user-adjustable delay window. For more details see this post:
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=8234.msg56366#msg56366

(4) The ability to correct the chord track associated with a real-time "quick" recording, after the fact. This could be accomplished with a fuller implementation of the "Chd" tab, which I believe is currently limited to step recording. Korg models presently have this capability.

Thanks for asking! -Ted

I'm surprised that Yamaha keyboards still don't have a style restart button.

It's still hard to insert a 3/4 or 2/4 measure into a 4/4 song.

When I briefly owned a Solton X1 about 10 years ago, the one feature I loved about it was the restart button, so that wherever you were in a rhythm it would start at beat 1 as soon as you pressed the button - perfect for odd measures or for someone who's accompanying and playing too fast or two slow.

The only solution with Yamaha keyboards is to press the sync/start button and to play the next chord immediately so that there's no break. When you accidentally play the chord before the sync/start button, you get a horrible Oops silence.

This feature would seem to be a no-brainer.

Hi Steve,
Technics had a cool feature, where you could step record chords: lets say 1 measure C 1/2 measure G 1/2 measure F (to keep it simple)
The KB would then keep repeating those chords and you could change variations and use fills.
Great for improvising and jaming.
Thanks for listening
Eric

Gary

The newer Yamahas do link midis to the Music Finder.

From my point of view the current system of grouping similar sounding styles together rather than alphabetically is the better way. IMHO This also allows you to jump from one similar style to another live making for more variety and sounding more like a real live band.

Sounds like some like the volume sliders. They are ok, but, please put the Registration Memory buttons back in the center of the keyboard. This makes it way so much easier for anyone, beginner to pro, to make the easiest and quickest changes using right or left hands. It also is above the main playing area for the melody so there are times when you can be playing a note with your right hand and hold it while using a different right hand finger to change the registration.

If they decide to keep the volume sliders maybe up on the left side like Korg would be better.

I definitely would prefer the two button system below the screen to continue.

Regarding the location of styles alphabetically or in groups as they are now:
Just allow us to arrange them the way we want. As I said, edit, delete or move Factory styles.
DonM

I always thought it would be a great idea to be able to press the Voice buttons and have your favorite preselected piano, trumpet, sax, whatever come on at the touch of the button. So if the most used guitar voice is Jazz Guitar then when you press the Guitar Voice button up comes that voice already engaged. Or if Sweet Trumpet is your most used trumpet voice, just press Trumpet and the Sweet Trumpet is engaged, etc. And also be able to group your favorite voices for each voice catagory in order of use for quick access.

I also would like the original system of accessing user voices to return to what it had been on my T1 and T2, and I see is used on the S910. And that is, the way I would use this feature for quick sound changes is I'd set up the first user voice I was going to use later in the song first, then I'd either use ots or reg mem. Then to quickly go to my preselected user voice later in the song I'd press reg mem 1 which was set to piano in R1, then go directly to my preselected user voice. This allows you to go from a two or three layered ots or registration in a zip. As it is now, if I press preset 1 which is still piano R1, regardless of what user voice I had set up, it will go to the piano voice in the user section. Whatever is set up in the reg mem buttons now, whatever the last button is pressed it brings up one of those voices in the user section.

As it is now, the only way you can preselect a user voice to be used later is to go from ots to user, but if it's a layered voice and if it has harmony on, you have to hit several buttons to pull this off.

So, between reg mem buttons not being in the center, to not being able to access my user voices as I always has, the T4's way of doing this has been a major letdown for me in this respect. If it wasn't for the great sounds, styles and voices, I would have stuck with my T2. I don't know when the switch took place, whether it was the T3 which I never tried or the T4, this is a problem area. Like I said it still words the old way on the S910 and I'm thinking it may be an oversight by Yamaha.

I actually hope that an OS update will fix this for the T4.

Styles that are less repetitive. This can be done without writing completely new styles since the existing ones span a broad range and are generally very good. For example, taking two similar styles (e.g., the two Viennese waltzes) and randomly choosing patterns from each as has been done for many years on Lowrey styles.

1. Volume sliders for all sections and parts
2. Touch Screen (Large)
3. The ability to load Akai Samples
4. Integrated VST Host (Usable on all sections)
5. Style convertor designed specifically for Yamaha (Can be an option)
6. Audio drum tracks (In addition to better drums)
7. Audio style backing loops with multiple chord recognition
8. Simple style backing so that those that wish to play with their left hand can, rather than having to always play along with the style. (My pet hate with all Yamaha styles (See Roland for how to do it)
9. Advanced editing options for styles and sounds (And I mean advanced) similar to workstations. (Could be an option)
10. Comprehensive Midi Controller options
11. 76 Notes
12. Multiple keyboard split points for both left and right hand

Bill

HI Steve,

Thanks for soliciting feedback. Here are my suggestions:

1. The Music Finder is a great concept, I would like to link an Entry in the Music Finder to a Registration. It's as simple as that. When I call up a MF entry, the entire registration bank should load with it.
2. Audio Bass and Drums Loops. When people say they want better drums in the Tyros, I believe what they are asking for is a better groove or LIVE FEEL, not so much the live sound, because in the current Tyros you can change drum samples and drum part volumes. When I owned the Audya, I was taken a back from the groove and swing of the styles.
3. Trio Button - I would love to have a ONE press button that would drop out all other style parts instantly except Left hand, Drums, Bass.
4. Pianist Button - Similar to the Ketron Audya a ONE press button that puts the keyboard in Piano mode.
5. Chord Sequencer
6. Edit and replace Factory Style Locations - Some of the On board styles are just not for me, I want to replace them with styles that are applicable to my gigs and the my style. I will never play Schlager styles, why should they take up space in my Style Banks????? The File Access button is useless, I can't get it working correctly.
7. More Contemporary Jazz, Country, Latin Styles - These are becoming HUGE music genre's right now and I need MORE!!!!
8. Better Harmonizer - Almost there, current model falls short of TC Helicon quality.
9. Organ Voices - need more control of the Leslie parameters. You cannot accurately reproduce the Leslie speed up/slow down sound WITH THE MOD WHEEL!!!!! I don't want another pedal on a gig, I use sustain and Harmony on/off.
10. How about built in Blue Tooth so that I can use the Lyric display and a wireless pedal to turn pages?
11. Better integration into the iPad, imagine being able to either edit parameters or view the Tyros screen/lyrics/score on the iPad, Realtime!!!
12. Mixer/Effects Master override of Styles and Registration. I would love to turn off ALL effects on the styles from a MASTER button or setting, rather than edit each individual style. This is more of an OVERRIDE of the Style Effects/Volume setting.

If you ditch internal memory then have 2 USB "to device" ports so we can leave a micro memory stick permanently installed (although with the internal hard disc this is less of an issue than it would be on my 3K)

And I'm still someone who hankers after 76 keys.. but I still can't afford it!!!

Can I add my vote to better leslie control, registration buttons in the middle, XLR mic connector.

XLR balanced outputs would also be good (although to be fair I've not actually had any issues with jacks)

Stop the annoying sound glitch which often occurs whilst changing registrations - TomTomSF refers to this in One Touch settings but it also happens with registrations. My Technics changes sounds smoothly without any problems. I have registrations setup which I cannot use because of this.

The Registration buttons are in the wrong place and should be on the left (or centre) - a good option would be to have a further 8 buttons on the left which are assignable so they could be used for registrations, sounds, or whatever.

Good editing options for styles (showing 2 styles, side by side), so that you could quickly & easily copy / paste bits from any style with the same timing (as on Technics, with real micro editing if users really want to do the job properly).
Tony

All yamaha needs in my view now is a decent onboard sequencer, fully editable sound design creation features onboard and an inbuilt speaker system like the korg PA1X and i would buy a tyros 5 in a heart beat. And if they made a 73-76 key version then even better

Lots of great suggestions presented so far. First of all, I think Yamaha beats the completion in the RH voice department particularly with acoustic instruments. I think the main weakness with is within the styles. There needs to be more AUTHENTIC and contemporary Latin styles. By authentic I mean using instrumentation and patterns/phrasing that are true to the style. For example in Norteña music there is no need for castanets and trumpets. On cumbias there should not be a pseudo flamenco acoustic guitar strumming pattern. Salsa needs clear 2-3 and 3-2 clave percussion patterns and bass tumbaos. I could go on and on but in general the Yamaha Latin styles sound too “ball room”. Also there is a need for more contemporary Latin styles such as reggeaton and bachata. Just turn on any contemporary Latin radio station now in the U.S or Latin-American and you’ll hear how popular these styles are. It’s tricky to try to perform these styles on a Yamaha keyboard. I think the problem could be easily resolved if Yamaha hired consultants/programmers that are experts in Latin music.

Lots of great suggestions presented so far. First of all, I think Yamaha beats the completion in the RH voice department particularly with acoustic instruments. I think the main weakness with is within the styles. There needs to be more AUTHENTIC and contemporary Latin styles. By authentic I mean using instrumentation and patterns/phrasing that are true to the style. For example in Norteña music there is no need for castanets and trumpets. On cumbias there should not be a pseudo flamenco acoustic guitar strumming pattern. Salsa needs clear 2-3 and 3-2 clave percussion patterns and bass tumbaos. I could go on and on but in general the Yamaha Latin styles sound too “ball room”. Also there is a need for more contemporary Latin styles such as reggeaton and bachata. Just turn on any contemporary Latin radio station now in the U.S or Latin-American and you’ll hear how popular these styles are. It’s tricky to try to perform these styles on a Yamaha keyboard. I think the problem could be easily resolved if Yamaha hired consultants/programmers that are experts in Latin music.

lets make it a full professional TOTL arranger.
and lets take T4 as the base.

- 76 keys
- Big 12,1" touchscreen
- Better and more advanced style edditing
- More indepth sound edditing (Motif sound engine)
- Sounds playable directly from SSD, with a user upgradable SSD up to 256GB
- Step sequencer
- lighweight but very durable casing (titanium)
- touch pad for X-Y controll
- D-Beam
- Vector joystick and integration
- Ribbon controller


And the following would be optional at an added price :

- Software edditor running on PC that lets the T4 funcction as a VST and as a VST host, much like the KORE controller from NI.
- Full KArma support, usable on top of the styles and sepperated.
- Hardware expansion for other synth engines (VL, DX, AN boards and more)
- Firewire and Gigabit Lan connection and and the abbility to send audio and midi over this connection.
- A high class vocaliser that can be build in as an option but does not come standard anymore, to many people just dont need a vocaliser.


Maybe they should base this TOTL arranger on teh MOtif series and add everything thats in the T4 and the things described above to that.

The big problem is that many people want different things in an Arranger, by selling a lot of the stuff optional, people might build the arranger as they would like. Imagine to have like 8 expansion slots that you can fill with any stuff you would like.

Also I'd love to have:

1. loop funtion (chord sequencer)
2. better chord recognition of rootles (jazz chords)
3. a slimmer/more compact build
4. live audio loops (like Ketron)
5. 76 keys
6. two mic inputs
7. TC Helicon Harmonizer- or something as good
8. Black

A chord sequencer... Now that Korg have resurrected Roland's best feature (albeit not quite as well), perhaps you won't feel guilty ripping this idea off..?! Make sure the chord sequences can be saved and linked to Performances, make sure that the CS transposes when you transpose the keyboard, make sure you can choose whether the CS records fills and style and division changes, and you will be able to say it is even BETTER than the Korg version!

A global Reverb Offset. There is a HUGE difference between what the European 'sing-along' and the casual home user considers an appropriate amount of reverb, and what gigging dance-floor musicians need. To HAVE to edit every single style, every single Performance, to bring these into the more dry (the room you play in has its OWN 'space' that the audience hears added on to whatever reverb is put on to make the style sound ambient in a dry furniture filled home) space live pro's use is a PITA.

Yes... punchy, in your face dums. Drums that make you think a REAL drummer is playing right next to you, not in some isolation booth, compressed, reverbed and played back in the control room.

I think a way for third party style developers to have PROTECTED style formats, that only allow a limited amount of user editing and NO ability to save to an easily cracked area of user data. Give talented style creator the ability to MAKE A LIVING selling styles that can't be handed out like party favors by its first legal purchaser will create an explosion of content the like of which we haven't seen since the 80's.

Probably whizzing into the wind... but magically, your competition (and even other Divisions within the Yamaha organization) seem to be able to make a profit from arrangers with 76 notes. To be honest, what's the POINT of a 'Pianist Mode' when the keyboard of all TOTL and MOTL Yamaha arrangers have insufficient notes to actually PLAY pianistically?

And I already posted this in the Pt.2 post, but it might be better here...

Let's keep going...!

I would like to see MORE fills between sections. Theoretically, a four Division arranger needs 16 fills to have a unique fill from each possible Division to every other Division (including Fill-to-Same). Perhaps the full 16 is a bit much (although honestly, it is easier for a style composer to make a unique one for each transition than to have to finagle ONE fill to work well for a variety of different transitions) but more than six would be a huge improvement.

I would also like to see a separate Break/Fill for each Division. The break/fill for the Var1 division needs to be VERY different for the Break/Fill for the Var4 division. I think Ketron already has this... an excellent feature. A compromise could be achieved by having only two, and having them for Var1-2 and Var 3-4, to aid style composers that don't want to be bothered with the full 4 (as an option).

At some point, would it be possible to look at played note DENSITY and velocity? If you are getting pretty busy with your RH, maybe an alternate drum and bass Part could be switched in, to make the rhythm section appear to be actually LISTENING to you (perish the thought!). Busier guitar Parts, busier drum parts, busier bass Parts (restricting the feature to that might take some of the burden off the style composer) as an alternate to simpler ones (possibly much simpler than most Yamaha styles currently start out at) switched in and out of by how rapidly you are playing yourself might be the next step in creating the illusion that the backing band is REAL...

Do you already have the feature from Roland where a velocity offset is applied, either negatively or positively (depending on how hard you are playing) to the Style Parts? When drum and bass Parts use velocity X-switched samples, the effect of the rhythm section following YOUR dynamics is uncanny. You could also improve on the Roland implementation by allowing a user defined window for dynamic detection, allowing you to set how LONG you need to be playing at a higher or lower dynamic before the velocity offsets start to be applied.

I would also like to see styles with longer Divisions, up to 16 bars, but with a user defined parameter allowing a random start point at the bar 1/4/8 point, to make accompaniment less predictable.

Notice a trend here...? These are all ways to make the arranger more MUSICAL, and more responsive to how YOU are playing, and less predictable and repetitious, imitating what REAL players really DO...!

Hi Steve,
I only have an old psr1500 so maybe the newer T4 may already have these functions.

Sustain controller in style tracks.
Ability to have different time signatures for style parts.
Dedicated fill buttons as well as automatic fills.
Ability to Export & Import a complete style as a midifile for editing in a pc sequencer.
Ability to event list edit any factory style track.
Ability to import a pad as a style track & vice versa.

Something along the lines of Korg's Guitar Mode for creating guitar tracks.

Above are some of the reasons why I have a Korg instead of a Yammie, even though I prefer Yamaha type styles.

In short, better editing functions for styles.

I do not want to get rid of the style groups. Just make all the styles in each group appear alphabetically. Then eveyone's happy.

Tom G.

And here is my cherry-pick of features that others here have already posted (apologies for not individually crediting each poster):



All GREAT suggestions that would definitely make me want a Yamaha more than I do right now!

Great topic, Steve.

In addition to what has already been suggested...

A 1/2 bar fill button to allow for songs with the odd 2 beat/bar in a 4 beat/bar tune.

The DSP variation button moved to the left hand side of the panel, and within easy reach...as of now it is practically useless situated on the far right near the top.

The modulation wheel assignable to the DSP variation.

Ian

Steve:

I represent possibly the bottom end of your market... but possibly not. I don't perform. I'm a songwriter. I need better voices (I call them instruments) and though my efforts are not limited to "country music" I do write alot in that genre. The arranger allows me to write and create melodies quickly for the lyrics I generate. Today's country uses better drum sounds, a variety of country instruments including dobros, pedal steel, resonators plus many of the instrument voices you already have in your excellent stable of voices.

Having more intros, middle breaks and outros included in each style (three or more each)would allow me to utilize the same style with different setups to keep the music from souning the same as my previous song. Right now, I do my best to never use a style more than once with certain exceptions. If the intros are different enough, then the style can be utilized in successive productions.

Please remember that my songs are mostly demos used to audition a song for an artist or producer. If they like it and decide to record it, they will arrange things to suit their style and artist... but they have to hear something that sounds reasonably professional first. There is an abiding dislike in Nashville for "Cheesy Sounding" keyboards... and fortunately, an well set-up arranger can sound like a band, an orchestra... or a simple, no frills guitar demo or worktape.

Vocal harmony is important. Better sounding backing groups with a VH system much easier to set up and utilize... would be nice.

For my purposes, I could use a much smaller keyboard. 61 keys are not important to me. I play chords and let the style and multipads add the backing needed after carefully setting up the board and selecting the instrument voices, volumes of each, etc.

I then record "live" and seldom use tracks. I use earphones only during recording thus the built-in speaker system is a liability insofar as it becomes a cost driver for acquiring the machine.

I connect the keyboard directly to a digital recorder where I can optionally use tracks (or not, usually) and then I "port" the WAV file into a PC where the edits are done before the song is converted to an MP3 song or possibly a CD for demo purposes.

USB input and output is vital to me. The need for a good earphone jack in the front of the machine plus a USB port both front and back to allow USB sticks/memory devices to be attached is important. I avoid MIDI setups like the plague. Too complex and time consuming for me. I am a songwriter first and a "techie" only out of necessity... without many skills in that direction.

A hard drive "on board" would be nice to contain all the styles but an input/output capability (via USB) is important. That way, to reduce costs, I could use a stand-alone hard drive if Yamaha's Motherboard would support an external USB drive.

Naturally, if Yamaha can keep a "weather eye" out for newer musically oriented devices and apps to further enchance the "new type keyboard" that would be a real plus. I don't use an iPad yet but can see where some of the new apps have promise and would enhance song creation in conjunction with the keyboard.

An onboard style converter would be heavenly... allowing styles from other "boards" to be utilized.

An Onboard collection of MultiPads with versatile, melody following accompaniment options would also be a super companion feature.

Most of all, I need an inexpensive unit. There must be somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 songwriters in the USA alone and the pyramid of writers on the bottom level can "ill afford" to pay studios and session players to create demos of their work. Being able to create the entire song: lyric, melody, vocal and recording is a real plus. Unfortunately for Yamaha and the other Arranger producing keyboard manufacturers... Arrangers are relatively unknown in the USA. But that could quickly change if an extensive Youtube campaign were launched by Yamaha or it's competitors.

Finally, to keep me from having to hand-write the setup I have utilized for each song when I record and sing, it would be nice to have a printer port that would allow me to print the exact setup, volumes of each voice, master volume, vocal volume, Multi-pad volume... plus the name of each instrument, the tempo, transposition settings (sometimes I change key at the break) and other setup parameters. Then I could print the setup and name it and file it away in a notebook for this purpose. I often go back and re-cut a song after listening to the most recent creation. It's amazing how different a song can sound after being finalized than how it sounded to me the day before.

Thanks for any consideration you may be able to give to any or all my ideas. I'm certainly available if your design team needs a "guinea pig" or "sounding board" to bounce ideas around with.

Best of luck.

Dave Rice

http://ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice/

1)61key FSX and 76 key weighted key options

2)Audio loops in the styles. Atleast some of the arp stuff similar to the Motif

3)Software to easily and quickly create Yamaha Style accompaniments using audio loops(a la Garage Band which uses pattern based approach in creating songs by combining various audio loops.)

4)Tiltable touchscreen. Possibly responsive to both touch and existing non screen button presses would be nice... Just incase one of the two fails

5)More and lots more of the Yamaha premium content from musicsoft to customize and keep keyboard contents up to date.

I think that Korg's new WS the Kronos has shown the inevitable way of the future. No longer are you restricted to a few hundred MB of sound ROM... You have instant streaming access to GB's of sound data!

One thing I have read on this thread a few times is the desire for audio loops to be incorporated. I am afraid I disagree heartily! Or at least, I disagree that they should become a primary way of generating backing. They impose so many restrictions to what you can do with an arranger that the disadvantages far outweigh the benefits, IMO.

The thing is, if you go to the website of any modern VSTi drum library, and listen to the demos posted there, it is pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to tell that these aren't live audio loops of a real drummer. But they aren't! They are IDENTICAL to what you have in your current arranger.... except the SIZE and quantity and quality of the drum samples is an order of magnitude greater than current ROMPLER based arrangers.

But an arranger with a big SSHD streaming GB sized drum libraries would sound as live as ANY loop playing arranger. But you can still edit the kit... you can change the kit from a jazz kit to a funk kit... you can edit the style to swing a little less or more.... you can change the reverb on the snare alone... you can change the placement of the kick beat to suit another song better.

All things completely impossible to do with a audio loop based arranger.

Now imagine that for bass Parts, Guitar Parts, string and horn Parts, etc...

I think the move to audio loops is a very shortsighted (and hopefully short-lived) episode in arranger technology. We need little better than we have already got as far as the DATA playing the style. But an increase in the SIZE of the voice data that the sounds use would provide amazing realism with NO LOSS in editing ability and flexibility. Which, after all, especially flexibility, isn't that WHY we use arrangers?

I use the S910 for dinner/cocktail music, as well as making backing tracks for singers. In any upgrade, I wish I had the ability to plug-in my laptop to the keyboard; then, get a template on the computer screen (similar to Band In A Box), and type-in the key, chords, number of choruses, etc. to access the Yamaha styles, rather than having to play the song in real time to record the track. I've never learned step recording, since it seems too combersome. Some jazz standards in wierd keys are difficult play, where typing-in the chords is easy. Further, please allow the right hand harmony feature to work with any midi file, such as third party files. Maybe it can already do that and I just don't know how to make it work. Also, always keep a high-end arranger with built-in speakers. I play many small parties where no external sound system is needed.

Larry, have you tried slowing the tune WAY down, and just playing the accompanying chords with BOTH hands (to get inversions where and when you need them), and recording into the sequencer?

Then speed it back up again...

Probably faster than typing the chords in, setting where you want fills, Breaks, etc..

Finally (for now!)...

If you remain utterly determined to ignore the considerable number of more proficient musicians and arranger users that want and need more than 61 notes to fulfill their musical style and vision, maybe NOW is the time for a Yamaha arranger MODULE?

Little more than current Yamaha technology would be needed. After all, most arranger players buying one of these would ALREADY have a 76 arranger, so many of the 'new' features asked for here would already be in the arranger they have!

But care and attention would need to be paid to allowing the most flexibility in integrating with the master keyboard, whatever it is. To that end, user definable codes for each and every function would be a necessity to allow controllers from Korg, Roland, Ketron, you name it, to trigger Fills, Variations, Intro/Endings, Breaks, Performance selection, OTS selection, etc., etc..

Currently, no two arranger manufacturers can agree on a common set of codes to allow Variation selection on one arranger to trigger Variation selection on the other (isn't it about time this got standardized?), so allowing the USER to define what codes trigger what (hey! make it easy and include templates for Korg and Roland if you REALLY care about your customers!) would allow a player to create an 'über-arranger' from a combination of two utterly different arrangers.

Then the weaknesses of each of them could be masked by the strengths of the other.

I am quite enjoying my new BK-7m, and exploring ways to use it in more than just the conventional 'hook it to a 61 controller and pretend it's a normal arranger' way. Perhaps a PSR910 equivalent in a module form (little needs to be done but design the case and work on the trigger code flexibility) at about the BK-7m's price point would get a Yamaha into the hands of many who cannot use one right now due to your insistence that anything more than 61 notes is a waste?

Seamless sound switching. A real Sampler. USB 3.0 interface. Professional sounding Vocal Harmonizer. Full sized keys. Better action keybed. More internal memory e.g. 70MB or more. Better acoustic pianos. Better electric pianos. Better sounding Drum kits. Touch screen. Balanced outputs... hybrid jacks designed to take either XLR or TRS would be nice. SSD hard drive with streaming capability. MP3 compatibility, plus voice cancellation technology. 24/32 bit dacs. 256 note polyphony... it's high time someone raised the bar to the next level. FWIW, Roland recently accomplished that feat with the Jupiter-80, but it's NOT an arranger.

Instant record and playback of user's playing (30, 60, 90 etc... seconds worth) as featured on Roland TOTL workstations. I'm not sure if the Tyros4 currently has that ability, as I've been out of the loop for a while regarding arrangers. If it does, disregard. B3 tonewheel organ technology. Much more WAV ROM... 2GB or larger would be nice... which is still a pittance when compared to VSTi instrument sample libraries. Micro sound editing capability. Higher resolution LCD screen w/ ability to view in direct sunlight. Last but not least, (although more suggestions could be added upon further review) a 76 key option, which most likely Yamaha won't produce again until new executive leadership steps in who won't have any preconceived notions or personal reservations regarding Yamaha's previous business model decision i.e. the 9000PRO was an "experiment" never to be replicated while current Yamaha executives continue to rule the roost. Or so it seems. A new CEO may be necessary before we see a 76 key TOTL arranger from Yammie again. But here's to hoping the current CEO will have a change of heart and surprise everyone in the process. And I do mean everyone! lol

You da' man Steve! Although obviously Yamaha limits what, as well as when, you can post here on Synthzone. It's all good though. You'd likely post here more often if Yamaha didn't keep you on such a tight leash right? Ya' gotta do what the boss says. On the other hand, I would likely post here much more often too, if I actually owned an arranger. After I sold my Tyros and parted with my PSR2000 I've been arranger-less. I'm still waiting for a suitable 256 note polyphony arranger, which I imagine many other arranger keyboardists are waiting for with bated breath also.

128 note polyphony has been milked to death and a doubling of the current standard would go a long, long way in re-igniting much needed enthusiasm within the arranger keyboard market in my opinion. With all the new fangled additions being added to arrangers e.g. multipads, complex style arrangements, layered voices, etc., etc.,... it is relatively easy to exceed 128 note polyphony and experience the dreaded note cut-off(s), which can wreck havoc, especially during a live performance. I commend Yammie for seeking user input on future arranger possibilities. Roland and company have a terrible habit of excluding user input from the equation. The result, sadly, is the BK-5. That's my own personal observation and opinion obviously. The sounds on the BK-5 just didn't do it for me. Mind you, there are some pretty decent sounds on the BK-5 but it's hit and miss. More often miss, if you ask me. But at $999 it's a good choice for the beginner I suppose. But I digress. Keep up the good work Steve!

- a place to put a laptop mouse
- 2-3 mic inputs
- another input for guitar
- drums AND bass that sound kick-butt live (see Audya)
- more unplugged, pop, country styles
- loud, high-quality onboard speakers facing player AND audience

We're talking TOTL here. Make it a great solo player machine but also an awesome duo/trio machine! It would be cool not to need a separate mixer.

Keep it under $10,000

Well, Steve did say "irrespective of cost", which makes it all a bit pie-in-the-sky, really. If all the things that people have been asking for were brought to be, just how many would actually shell out the kind of cash that these dreams would cost? Not just the afficionados here, but in the world at large. I'm guessing it wouldn't be that many, most probably not enough for Yamaha to produce these things on the grand scale of the Tyros's and PSR's of this world.

Of course, the realistic goal here is that SOME items on this collective wishlist may well appear. Trouble with that is, only a limited number of folks will be happy and the 'shoulda done this, shoulda done that' saga will continue into forever. It's the old 'you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time'.

Kudos to Steve Deming for asking, though.

I tried to make ALL my suggestions mostly software ONLY...

OK, sure, an SSHD streaming ROM playback system would up the price, but look at the Kronos... It has one of those (and a whole lot more!) and is comparable in price to a T4.

Take a look at the price difference between Korg and Ketron (and older Roland) 76's compared to the 61 equivalents. Not exactly bank-breaking, either.

I think this thread has a LOT of great ideas that are little more than code. Much of it, not even new code. If Steve cares to look over this list, I am sure much of it could be introduced without tacking much onto the list price.

OK... thought of something else...!

I'd like to see a stereo WIDTH parameter for all stereo sounds.

If you are performing on a large stage, and set up the speakers well apart, certain things like the Leslie FX, drum pannings and the like are WAY too wide. But you still want the overall ambience reverbs, choruses and such to have their full width. It would be nice to allow width control as a global offset for certain parameters.