So I got a call from a real talented bassist/singer that hired me to do a restaurant gig that starts up next week. After talking to him about what he wants and his song selection, I'm thinking we will do about 1/4 of the music with just bass and keys (no drums accompaniment), 1/4 bass and keys with drum accompaniment and the rest of the music with bass, and keyboard in full arranger mode with the bass track muted. Anyone here work with a bassist? Did you do any auto accompaniment at all? Luckily we're going to get together before the gig to see how it works. I'm a bit concerned about how the bass will blend/groove with the auto accompaniment. I’m excited at the potential a live bass can add though because arranger keyboard bass lines can get so old... Anyways it seems like it will be an interesting gig...

As a long-time bassist, I can tell you that this will take more than a day or two of rehearsal. Playing bass is a visual thing. You watch the drummer and the rythem player(s). Your job is to drive the tunes and control the co-ordination between all.

If you can't see the drummer...that's like playing with a drum machine. You follow...not bad, but hard for a bass player to get used to. The arranger is the leader of the group. Likewise, changes in arranger mode are keyed by the left hand of the player. In arranger mode, you won't see the strumming or percussive strikes.

Intros and endings, if used, will have to be memorized by the bass player.

The bass player has a way bigger learning curve than you do. I'd forget arranger mode and just use the drum function. That will get you up to speed faster, and sound way more realistic; especially if the player is really good.


Let us know how it goes.


Russ

What a nightmare coming your way ..Just kidding..

If he is an excellent bass player...don't play bass, left hand or arranger with him..Play two hand piano etc....but I would use the drums...it should help tie you together with him...

When he sings...maybe he should back off the bass and let you play ..left hand bass or arranger bass...

I remember when I started out with a band and I was playing accordion, and we had a real upright bass player that was our singer too...I played mostly the root and fifth as bass and he was able to play the bass lines without too much interference....

Unfortunately on arrangers and left hand bass players...we do more walking and this will destroy another bass player...

Give up the bass to the bass player, play piano and drums..

Good luck Paul.......your gonna need it.....enjoy

I had no problems working with a bass player in arranger mode...make sure you agree on the arrangements, turn off the bass channel in your style, and, most importantly, make sure he has a very good monitor.

I also have often worked with a guitarist successfully, using the same procedure, but making sure the appropriate style part is switched off...if he is doing primarily lead guitar, it is possible to leave one of the Guitar Chord tracks on. Experiment.

Before doing anything, make sure they can play to the arranger's strict tempo...some bass/guitar players, even very good ones, may need time and practice to get used to playing with a strict steady tempo drum track, and some never do get used to it.

In both my cases, we used charts, which made it much easier.

Ian

Fran said it better than I did.

He's totally "on point".

Ian's point about the ability to play in meter is right on, too. I can't tell you of the trained players I know who can't do it...have a TERRIBLE time with a drum machine.

Even my longest partner and teacher had a tendency to rush. We almost drowned our first drum machine in the hotel pool before it all came together.

Full piano mode and bass with drums from an arranger will go smoother and will make you a better player.


All the best...


R.

Paul,
I've used the arranger in arranger mode - but with a lot of the acc turned off - with both a guitar player and a bass player ... even with a drummer while the arranger played the bass part ... they have to LISTEN, but it can be done ...
if he is as good a musician as you are you shouldn't have a problem ... make sure there is a monitor close by ...
Best wishes, and let us know how it works out ...

Fran and Russ are absolutely on the money on this one. If you're a solid two-handed pianist with good left-hand comping chops, controlling the drum fills and variations should be a snap. Leave out the arranger backing altogether. Not only will it be more confusing for the bassist, but it'll have you going back and forth between two playing styles. And, as Russ says, it'll be WAY more realistic (and artistically satisfying). Good luck. Try to get in as much rehearsal time as possible before the gig. If you've ever played in a 'standard' piano/bass/drum trio before, it should be a piece of cake. Also, try substituting a nice tasteful 'Rhodes' on some of the slow tunes. That will provide a little variation. Also, if you're comfortable with it, try a split with piano or Rhodes comps and some easy to emulate lead voices in the right hand. Just suggestions but I've done this many times (with a synth) and it worked out well.

chas

Thanks guys for the great advice. A bass player wouldn't be my first choice for a dou but it's not my gig. But the more I think about it, I think it could work well. I'm preparing by working on 2 handed piano comping and coming up with my OWN intros and endinds. Also I think he'd be open to me covering the bass on some of the funky stuff that he sings lead on. Should be fun because we're covering all sorts of styles- Latin, C&W,R&B, and the old standards too.

I think I've posted about this in the past, but it bears repeating. If it is AT ALL possible, split your drums out to separate outputs. Now, you can feed your bass player some extra drums (in his monitor), to get him back in the groove.

Most musicians have troubles locking to arrangers because they aren't used to hearing the drums buried in the mix. They stand next to him, and can't miss it! And many of us make the problem even worse, by burying the drums by what WE play! Listen to most demos here... The drums are usually close to inaudible compared to the lead sounds. Now imagine your job was to lock to the drummer. Tough!

The answer is to record yourselves during rehearsal. Then listen critically, and try to decide when the drums are swamped, and adjust the Performances or SMF's etc., to make sure they don't. And one of the things that is going to have to happen is for YOU to get used to hearing yourself more IN the mix than ON it.

If you can split out the drums, you are pretty good to go. But if you can't, it is going to take a bit of time for BOTH of you to adjust. But don't give up. Record EVERYTHING (those little Zoom pocket recorders are killer for this), and try to listen objectively. Don't worry about YOUR part, or his part, try to listen to it as if it is a BAND... Do they sound balanced?

If they do, your job is done!