Dennis have u seen the Karma 3.0 video on motifator.com with the Motif XS/XF??? MUCH MUCH closer to arranger functionality now.

by the way - i have already produced some very detailed trance tracks with multiple arps and drum samples overlapping and have never once noticed any drop in Poly.

The 8 element voices has almost nothing to do with Poly unless u are playing organ voices. almost every other voice which may or may not have up to the full 8 elements dont actually trigger 8 notes in the one hit. they are all velocity or assignable button activated.

Hey Nick, yeah BUT the biggest drawback for Karma is you MUST have a Laptop/PC on stage for it to run...
All the midi is generated from the PC and only uses the XS/XF for the sound engine....

I am still living in hope that SK (Stephen Kay) can finally talk Korg Italy into allowing him to develop for the PA platform!!!

He has been trying for about 4 years that I know of

As for the 8 elements, yes you are 100% correct...but call it a throw-back to the days of note dropping beasties without today's note allocation algorithms, I still feel way WAY more comfortable with 128...

Dennis

Why does he need permission? Surely it's just a MIDI app?

I guess you mean Karma in the PA itself. But a laptop or iPad app to do it via MIDI would be close to as useful, and he wouldn't have to go cap in hand like Oliver Twist to those nitwits in Italy!

I dunno Diki, all I know is what SK has told me. I do know that Korg Italy will not release ANY sysex data to anyone...been that way for years. It's why we cannot get a PC editor developed by a 3rd party as the sysex is needed.

So I suspect that is the drawback...Plus, having it run native on the keyboard is far better, imo, than the cobbled approach of the Yamaha format...

But surely, anyone using a sequencer has all the data hooks into the voice that a regular Triton has (is that the voice architecture of the PA3X voice?), and all Karma is doing is playing note and controller streams into the regular synth voice?

There are PC# codes for changing Performances, so changing insert effect routing and types shouldn't be impossible (although the sound glitch while it does it is always a concern), other than that, it is simply calling up a sound, and perhaps modulating voice parameters like decays, cutoff sweeps, stuff like that. Those are simply CC# data, right?

I don't honestly see what it needs sys-ex for...

I understand you would need it for a full editor, but that's not what Karma is...

To be honest, I think I prefer the laptop approach to a built in one. For starters, it would allow the developer to update and bugfix the Karma section MUCH faster than leaving it to Korg (look how long it is taking to get the PA3's issues sorted) and allow him to improve and add capabilities without going through Korg's beta system.

Plus, you have the opportunity with a laptop system of using Karma over a larger rig. Imagine some of the Karma Parts going into the Korg, and others going into a Yamaha module or keyboard, and others yet off to a Kronos... Not so easy to do that from the keyboard.

Yes, in a perfect world, it would be built into the PA3X, but in a PRACTICAL world, better it in a computer (and add to its flexibility) than not exist at all!

Diki, m8 I agree with you (apart from the separate pc), but apparently sysex with the PA3 IS an issue. And K.I. simply won't see, or refuse to see the HUGE benefit of Karma, or allow their OS to be used...

I would not be surprised to see the Yamaha arrangers the first to gain from Karma tech though...although maybe Yamaha woulod not want to drag WS customers away...

Who knows HOW these corporate bods think hey

The thing is, sys-ex is usually the kiss of death to a good tight groove. Are you sure that Karma really needs to send it?

What, off the top of your head, do you think Karma does that would need it? As I mentioned, the Korg can change Performances with simple PC# and CC#'s, so what else would it need it for?

Not trying to be awkward, just trying to get a handle on the whole thing.

Has Jay made any mention of a Karma iPad app? I would think, with the tactile surface, that is crying out for being used...

Diki, the sysex is needed so the Karma controls can be mapped to the hardware/software touch buttons and controllers...

Similar in the way, to the fact that functions you can do with the EC-5 are NOT available for a standard midi controller...there are quite a few operations and functions that do NOT have any CC control available...

If it were all simply down to CC's SK probably would have done it at the PA1 stage...we would also probably by now, have a PC editor as well...something that has been asked for time and again of Korg Italy, who seem to be most reticent in providing this data for 3rd party programmers!! Luckily the same can not be said for Korg USA who realise the importance of PC/Mac editor software.

These keyboards today really NEED companion editing software in my view...

Imagine if Korg had released this data, and Korg arrangers had someone like Jos, or Michael Bedesem writing software for it...

Dennis

If it just the front panel buttons, well, firstly, with a laptop or iPad version, you wouldn't be using those buttons! And a Korg Nano button and knob USB controller could add them where you could easily get them.

But more confusingly, if the knobs and buttons DO send sys-ex, surely it is a simple job to record each button press into a sequencer, and look at it?

More and more, it looks like a laptop approach, like Kay has done for Yamaha, is by far the best practical solution.

I must admit, given how enthusiastic you seem to be for iPad usage onstage for lyrics, mixing and other things, that iPad or a tablet PC usage for adding Karma seems to be such a turnoff...

Diki, it is totally different and who said I use the iPad for anything but charts..I certainly didn't.

As I have said before, adding the laptop to control Karma, on top of an iPad on top of a keyboard is just way too much..okay for someone like you who has another person who can carry stuff whilst you are fiddling....

SK had to do some pretty creative mapping to get the Karma controls allocated to the Yamaha buttons. But on the Korg (or any arranger really) they are all there ready to use in a very logical thought out way.

And controllers are only good for CC commands, NOT sysex..the only one I am aware of that allows programming

Why do you always insist on trying to being so obtuse!!! Were you born that way or did you have to study for it

How LONG have you been around midi????? A simple job of mapping sysex??? Give over m8!!!! Do you realise just how many sysex commands are needed for some of the higher functions? Check out a sysex data sheet (NOT the midi implementation page) for your G70, and even that pales into insignificance when compared to a Motif XF or Kronos.

And I have not read closely the Korg copyright data, so maybe there is even some stuff there as well!! It is a different company to Korg USA you know.

Anyhoo, I think you are merely trying for arguing for arguings sake, so I am going to leave it there....