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#359513 - 01/25/13 11:34 AM Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5393
Loc: English Riviera, UK
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English Riviera:
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#359517 - 01/25/13 12:38 PM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: abacus]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Odd....looks no no version for the BK-5 - just checked the App Store - ahh but checking the Roland apps page shows it is fine for ALL the BK range smile


Edited by miden (01/25/13 12:40 PM)

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#359550 - 01/25/13 10:43 PM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: abacus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14282
Loc: NW Florida
I'll just duplicate a post I put up at Roland-Arranger.com, to save you all surfing around... I'm hoping that I get egg all over my face when how wrong I am is pointed out to me, but I've read the manual and can't find it...

Quote:
I've only taken a cursory look at this software, but unless I have missed it, I feel that Roland have missed a perfect opportunity with this iPad app...

Let me explain. It appears that the screens are set up to DUPLICATE, to a large part, the front panel of the BK device. But I see no access to most of the 'hidden' functions. Yes, you can now quickly change the Chord Recognition Type parameter, but that seems to be most of it. Personally, if I am working with this app and a BK, why do I need duplicates of buttons I already HAVE? My hands are playing the arranger, all the primary functions are right there...

But what about all the important functions buried away in sub-menus? Stuff like Fill/Rit's, 1/2 Bar Fill-In's, Reset Bar, Arranger Hold's and the like? Once upon a time, ALL of these things would have got a front panel button. But to save costs, they gradually got buried away in sub-menus, practically useless - with the exception of the BK-7m which has an FC-7 input (mind you, 7 buttons is not enough for style control AND the reappearance of these buttons).

I honestly fail to see the NEED for the arranger controls to be duplicated, but I do see a need to bring these once front panel commands back out to a place where you could actually USE THEM, live.

Now, don't get me wrong... the ability to call up and organize Performances and Styles is handy, no doubt. But I feel that an awful lot of effort has gone into duplicating functions in the app that the buttons on the keyboard are right there for you. And very little to extending the live usefulness of the app.


The good news is, if Roland owners get a hold of Roland and ASK for a screen in the app to do this, perhaps an update could address most of this. But if you don't ask, you don't get...
computer
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#359559 - 01/26/13 03:37 AM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: abacus]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5393
Loc: English Riviera, UK
That’s the beauty of software; features can easily be added as requested.

Unfortunately most manufactures will only give you these additional features if you purchase a new instrument (Thus forcing you to change your instrument to get them) so that they can make more dosh from the punters.

Hopefully as users move over to using Tablets etc. (I still say have a basic arranger with all the memory and processing required, then just plug in your tablet with the software and features you want) it will force manufactures out of the “buy a new instrument if you want new features” mentality, just like software vendors have had to adapt in the computer market.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#359560 - 01/26/13 04:05 AM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: abacus]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6484
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Hmmmm ... I get the feeling this may go the way of computer software where the manufacturer releases half baked software thinking they can update it later when it suits them. I want a keyboard to be working just as I want it. I don't want to be forced to have carry an iPad and have to poke at that during a live performance. While iPad connectivity sure is a cool feature I don't want it to have to become essential to me performing live with a keyboard.

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#359564 - 01/26/13 07:58 AM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: Nigel]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Nigel
Hmmmm ... I don't want to be forced to have carry an iPad and have to poke at that during a live performance. While iPad connectivity sure is a cool feature I don't want it to have to become essential to me performing live with a keyboard.


Nigel I totally agree,....
I don't need no stinkin iPad!!cool2 keys Just more crap to carry and set up. Just want everything I need "on board" and working correctly for my needs.

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#359571 - 01/26/13 08:35 AM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: abacus]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5393
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Your both missing the point, the tablet would clip into a basic arranger and look and operate just like arrangers do today, (But with a nice big touchscreen) however the spec would be what YOU wanted not what the manufacture says you need.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#359577 - 01/26/13 10:16 AM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: abacus]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
No Ipad for me either. Waste of money. Better buy a labtop or PC with real power. The PA600 already has a nice big touch screen.

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#359589 - 01/26/13 11:52 AM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: abacus]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2447
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
I was thinking the IPad would be a great tool for programming faster, not necessarily an on the job editor. I do very little adjusting on the job. If something is really off I try to make a note of it and fix it when I get home.
Am I wrong in thinking this App can be used for editing, even down to the sub menus?
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Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#359601 - 01/26/13 02:00 PM Re: Roland BK3 + iPad at NAMM [Re: abacus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14282
Loc: NW Florida
It isn't really a full featured editor... TBH, I am a little confused as to the usefulness of the BK Partner app other than a good way to edit Performance lists. But you can't use it to CREATE full Performances, from what I can see.

One thing is IS useful for might be to add the 'Favorite Tones' feature from the BK-3, which hasn't made it to the BK-5's (or BK-7m's) OS yet. You can set up the ten buttons for Tone access to call up your ten most favorite sounds, no matter what Bank they are in. A handy feature, only on the BK-3 so far. But the iPad app can do it, so there's ONE live use for it, anyway!

There's a possibility that the hooks into the deeper OS features can't be addressed, but I don't know for sure. But as popular as these apps are, especially with younger buyers (mind you, how many youngsters are going the arranger route in preference over WS/Synth/Stage keyboards?) perhaps this is the way to bring them into the fold?

The Lyric Viewer app seems pretty handy, and may address some of the shortcoming in the way that PDF's are handled by the keyboard itself, and the Scale Editor seems a boon for those using it for Middle Eastern and other non-Western scale musics.

But all in all, I'm pretty disappointed in how little usefulness this Partner app has, so far. But with feedback from its customers, perhaps it can be addressed. I think we are all faced with budget arrangers with fewer and fewer actual buttons on them, as manufacturers look to cut costs, and many functions that used to be right there where you needed them get buried in menus. Here is the perfect opportunity to restore the full functionality without raising the cost of the arranger itself.

Let's hope they see it our way...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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