I would just love to have one these to play in a jazz trio

setting with Gtr. Drums, maybe a sax added to put icing on the

cake. I've heard this guy before, love his playing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM8bRUu7VBo


Frank

I'd rather have the real thing anyday....SK2....If i had to go clone the Nord C2D is tops at only 30lbs..

Anybody agree that the Nord C2D wins the award for the ugliest, messiest panel graphics?

They seem to have gone out of their way to make them look as different from the tried and tested Hammond 'look', and the underlay makes seeing where the drawbars actually are much harder than a plain background. You normally expect the Swedes to do elegant, minimalist, functional design, but I guess no-one's perfect..!

The Hammond B3 is the real thing, Sk1 and Sk2 are clones with a

Hammond badge on front.

Here's Tony...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLKKFImRbDY

Frank

The Hammond B3 is the real thing but the clones are getting closer to the real thing. My how far we've come in just the last ten years or so! Remember the early clones weren't very realistic. But today things have changed. They are much much better and they don't cost an arm and leg.

Here is a jazz player who actually compares a real B3 with a Hammond XK-3 clone. The demo was made in 2009 and he also mentions the newer model XK-3c which provides several improvements over the XK-3. You can judge for yourself but in my opinion the XK-3/c is practically indistinguishable from the real thing. It should be noted he was running both through a Leslie speaker system.

The big difference is a real B3 weighs a ton (figuratively speaking, but really really heavy nonetheless) and you need a road crew to haul it around. On the other hand, the Hammond XK-3c is fairly portable at 43 lbs and you can also micro edit the tone-wheel settings to customize it to your liking.

PS: If you want to skip the formalities the playing starts at 2:30.



All the best, Mike

Thanks for that Mike.

I totally agree, that clone is the "real thing".

How does the electronic Leslie sound.

Yes the clones can now " hold their heads high"

It might be now time to pull back from arrangers a little and

get back to real playing.

Frank

I didn't know playing Arranger KB wasn't "REAL" playing
I think the "Hammond" sound is to blown out of proportion,....there are so many great sounding organ patches on so many units, and when it's "in the mix" vs just a Jazz trio featuring a B3 etc, it certainly is more then good enough sounding clone or otherwise.

I think by real playing he means using both hands and feet and not relying on the boring and repetitive styles that come on all arrangers.

Bill

IMO using "both hands and feet" in NO way guarantees good quality music by any means,....how its done isn't an issue.....
but, "What it Sounds Like" is ALL that matters.

Stick to CD's then.... you'll NEVER sound better than them!

I started playing arrangers from the get go. It is real playing but you get the added benefit of auto-accompaniment which as we know makes the keyboardist a one man band so to speak. I noticed when I went from an arranger to a traditional workstation (Roland Fantom G7)it was somewhat difficult to get adjusted to. There is no style accompaniment of course but there is rhythm accompaniment and also arpeggio backing on my Fantom G7 and also on the Motif XF, etc. The melding between arranger and traditional workstation is gaining momentum and perhaps there will come a time when traditional workstations incorporate most if not all of the features found on arranger keyboards. Such as audio styles, multi-pads (which are similar to arpeggios - now found on traditional workstations as previously mentioned), songbook, harmonizer/vocalizer, karaoke (song scroll) and the like.

I think there will always be an arranger market but possibly only in the low and mid-range segment. High end arrangers could bite the dust in favor of traditional workstations that incorporate arranger features and functions into them. Although I'm just speculating obviously. But if the Big Three (and Ketron) keep producing high-end arrangers at such astronomically high prices, they could price themselves right out of the market if they're not careful. Especially in these uncertain economic times when many people just don't have money to burn.

I don't know about you guys but forking over $5,500.00 or more for a Tyros5, etc., is stretching the envelope. Traditional workstations, on the other hand, cost in some instances thousands of dollar less than your typical high-end arranger from Yamaha. If I can purchase a traditional workstation that has high-end arranger features incorporated into it and at a much lower price point than the Tyros5, etc., I'll go with the traditional workstation every time. Although it could be several years before we see that kind of transformation that incorporates high-end arranger features into traditional workstations. And to be honest it may never happen. But we can still dream I reckon. The ball is in the Big Three's court. They will ultimately decide how the ball bounces. But if high-end arrangers stick around the prices should reflect what you're actually getting. For $5,500.00 I think the keys should at least be gold plated right?

All the best, Mike

Whatever any of you say (and some of the stuff you say is very interesting), if you are playing to please an audience, the audience will judge you, and it will have the last word (eventually). If you have been playing an arranger successfully to audiences for any length of time, surely that must be a sign that you are doing something right.

If you want an Arranger and Workstation combination, just add a Roland BK7m to any Workstation to give you the best of both worlds. (It may take a little longer to set up but something worth thinking about)

Bill

Thanks Bill, got it in one !

Frank

A voice of REASON !!!

Some of us make assumptions that the audience cannot tell the difference between someone doing everything themselves, someone doing most of it themselves, someone doing not very much themselves and someone doing virtually nothing themselves...

Me, I hold my audience in higher esteem than that. Personally, I think that they are willing to listen to something FAR less good than the CD as long as they can see that you are actually PLAYING it.

When they see your hands off the keyboard for elaborate intros, when they see you barely playing anything while a full orchestration comes out of your keyboard don't EVER think that they can't tell the difference. You insult them thinking otherwise.

You nailed it exactly Diki.