Just got the BK-9. Will post impressions after a day or two.

Deane

Congratulations! I looking forward to reading your review. I'm very interested in the the Korg PA 600/900 or a Roland BK 9. Seeing that you have owned all of them, I'm interested in your opinion.

Wow, does the Ipad with the BK Partner App make a difference in ease of operation!! A MUST HAVE guys.

Deane

Hey Deane, you finally have a set up...I would like to have..

Ok, The BK-9 Partner App for the Ipad really sucks the juice from the Ipad.
I doubt a fully charged Ipad would make a 4 hour gig. Tomorrow I'll give it a real workout and report back.


Hi Fran.

Deane

Cool

Can you try to copy a style from the BK9 to USB key, and try it on vArranger?

As the only owner of all current most talked about models psr 950, pa 900 and bk9 , I believe you are the only person for comparison pros and cons and live arranger use/challenges with each unit.

^^^ That!

Please give us a comparison and impression as soon as possible! We are like kids right now!
I am particularly interested in how you rate the keyboard between Pa900 and BK9. But in all the other areas...

I want to be fair to all the keyboards so I will wait for an in depth review of the BK-9. However, these few things are obvious after only a short period of time.
1. BK-9 has no internal speakers - would have been a nice feature.
2. BK-9 scroll bar is still not a great way to select menu options
3. The Key feel is more like a piano than other keyboards I own.
4. The BK-9 OS is not very user friendly - rate me as a Roland Newbie
and I find it very difficult to figure out how things really work.
5. So far the styles from the BK-7 will not load and play - might be I am
doing something wrong - I'll continue to work on it.
6. Also, I can't get most of the G70 and E80 styles to load. Maybe someone
can provide advise.
8. Preset styles, I have auditioned all of them, over use organ sounds which
are also very much out of balance with accomp sounds.
9. I very much like the weight of the unit but would have been happier with
a 61 key version with speakers. (I am not a pianist)
10. Again, why don't the manufactures use standard plugs for the
power supplies.

Today, all day, I will spend whatever time it takes to learn how to edit and save both rhythms, and performances. Oh yes, why can't you edit or delete the factory songs and music assistant?

One other very important thing to know. You MUST format your thumb drive
on the BK-9 not on a computer before using it to save ANYTHING because the format creates folders for various things you might save.

Updating the OS to 1.06 was very simple with good instructions from Roland and it did take 20 minutes to complete. Oh yes, The BK-9 startup time is very fast - The PA900 startup time takes forever with the S950 a bit better than the PA900.

So, I am off to spend the day with my new toy - more later.

Deane

On BK7m you can load a factory performance, then edit it and save it to a custom performance bank.
DonM

Maybe Roland should "INCLUDE the Ipad" with the purchase of the BK9....or should have designed instead of the dual screens a Docking mount for it on deck,....seems weird to me to have to buy an optional Ipad for a new KB, but hey thats just me,..IMO they had their chance for real greatness with the BK9 by adding just a few more necessities people were asking for which I'm sure they wouldn't mind paying for included,..,eg: a good VH,
BIG Touch screen, etc. That said its still a good arranger KB.

I might be interested in one if it accepted the foot FS7.
DonM

Don,
I am so new to this OS I am not sure yet what I can and can't do. It is not intuitive.
Right now I am going through the manual page by page and following all the instructions to see what I can learn. Good thing I have a lot of time on my hands this week.

The Ipad app works really great. But that is just another piece of gear to drag around plus a stand.

Deane

Can you compare the styles and their usability ?are they busy or over orchestrated compared to Yamaha or Roland.I know Dikki has one but he is not OMB/arranger player ,if I'm not mistaken.

Jamman,
Let me know which styles you want to hear. I'll put some simple sample up on a share site. I don't have time to do it now but will look at it next week after I learn how to use the keyboard.

Deane

I just ordered a new Korg Kronos 73 and it should be here Monday... Thought it would be a nice addition with my T4.... Sure hope I like it... You can layer up to 16 sounds which should be fun... Hope you enjoy your Bk9... I think they are all good keyboards but it is just personal taste. Now the learning curve... SHould only take me a couple of years...!!!! Keeps the mind sharp... Ron

Bottom line about the iPad apps is, they don't do ANYTHING that the BK-9 can't... they simply speed up the ability to do them.

And, if you are the kind of player that sets up a Songbook, you don't really need to get to that sort of stuff on the gig... you've worked it all out and set it up beforehand (although I'd say an FC-7 is a necessity, and the connector is on the BK-9, DonM!).

However, if you are the kind of player that sort of muddles through, or just does stuff off the top of your head, the iPad apps can save you considerable grief scrolling around like a madman. I agree that Roland chose poorly, dropping the superb touch screen OS from the G/E series, but this may very well have been a cost issue, as Roland came out with the MUCH less expensive BK3/5/7m first, and they somewhat dictated how the line would go. Would have probably taken a major redesign to include a touch screen when the code was already well tested and established for the BK-5/3/7m's non-touch ones.

Hammer, have you got the BK-9 Performance Editor yet? That's the one I'm the most interested in, as it does seem to be the missing screen we all want. The Partner app doesn't really do hardly anything you can't from the front panel. But the Performance Editor seems to be the app that saves you from scrolling and pressing with the data wheel altogether.

Not much mention has yet been made about Roland's Numeric and Favorites data access. Took me a while to get used to it (it's brand new), but basically, when looking for Performances, or sounds, etc, the ten buttons for sound access turn into eight buttons to select things, and 0 and 9 turn into page up and page down buttons. It's actually quite quick to run through stuff and select with these.

And, while my main work at the moment is live bands, I do do solo and duo gigs. Admittedly, I used little arranger mode doing these, as, being a full two handed keyboard player, tying one up to repeat the same damn chords over and over strikes me as ridiculous. But I am having enormous fun at home with the BK-9 in arranger mode, now that the Chord Sequencer is back. I have no doubt, once I get it all prepped up, I will be using that a LOT more than I used to.

It really is a great successor to the G70. I have no doubt this will be my go-to keyboard fairly shortly.

Diki,
The Performance Editor App won't run on my ipad. I still have the old one.

Deane

I'm wondering how practical the iPad is... Where do you position it? Does it need a stand? What if you're already using an iPad for lead sheet display?

Paul,
you got it right. I already put mine away. The BK Partner App allows you to select
variations and a few other things but nothing that cant' be done live once you get a feel for the keyboard. I thought it was a must have item but have changed my mind. Now, I did not use the Performance Editor and that might be different.

Deane

Just your opinion on style comparison on those three keyboards.

Is Roland styles as busy as Korg?

Jamman,
Many of the styles are very busy in variations 3 and 4. I have not yet learned how to adjust the global EQ settings of the keyboard so what follows might not be the entire story. What I am noticing is a a lot of the styles are "Bass" heavy and the programming uses a lot of "ensemble" tones which are sounding very "muddy". My setup is simple - a single Bose L1 Compact using both outputs from the BK-9 into the Bose. Like I said, I have not yet learned how to balance the sounds or deal with the global EQ settings which might make a big difference.

Deane

Hammer,

Good luck on your journey. I love trying different models. I only liked the VA series and nothing else (maybe the EM-2000) excited me.

Deane, as we discussed, I'll try to get over there and maybe help a little with the operating system, before you make a final decision.
On BK7m, settings are quite easy to change and save, but there are default settings that may be causing you problems.
Hope to see you soon,
DonM

A step in the right direction. I found a setting where I could turn off the equalizer for both the style and the RH lead voices. It makes a big difference and cleans up the sounds a ton.

Deane

I have a question re. the BK-9 that the manual didn't clarify much: I know that it can play wav files from a thumb driv\e, but does it apply time stretching too? The manual is rather confusing and says that you must choose the same tempo as the style and verify that it doesn't go out of synch in time.

YES

I have been backing off the EQ and compressor settings, but not turning them off altogether. TBH, a lot of the styles need a considerable rework to get right if you do that... The EQ and comp tends to flatten out some of their inconsistency.

About the one thing I do is jack up the bass and drums to nearly flat out... This is a bit faster than turning all the OTHER Parts down, and also has the benefit of balancing the default RH voice volumes, which are, IMO, too loud. OTOH, I don't think I've heard more than a handful of user demos on anything, where I didn't feel the RH was too strong, so your mileage may vary! I've played in real bands too long to feel comfortable hearing my parts front and center!

Take a good look at that BK-9 editor... it might be time to get a new iPad!

I wouldn't want to time stretch too far away, though. In fairness, some of the better software time-stretching apps do a better job, so if you want to go outside 10BPM from a loop's original tempo, you'll probably have fewer artifacts by stretching it in the computer first. It's not that the Roland is bad at this (I've heard PA3x's and S950's time stretching algorithms, and they seem no better), it is simply that good computer software is better...

Are you sure of it? did you really try it?
App Store says that it is compatible with iPad, iOS 5.1 required...
if you can give it a try... I'm interested too on this issue...

Thanks!

Phatom75,
Yes, the Performance Editor App requires at least the Ipad 2 or later. Mine is the original Ipad. It will not even download the App from the App Store. And NO! I do not intend to buy another Ipad just to use that App.

Deane

Deane, thanks for your reply...
just for my curiosity... can you see the App in App Store?
What is the message when you try to download it?

many thanks...

For your problem with battery life, why don't you look at iRig connector?
I understand it has MIDI and Power supply connector...
but I'never used or seen one working...just a suggestion...

Phantom75,
Yes, the app can be seen in the AppStore.
The message indicates I don't have the correct OS for this
App to run and the App will not download.

Deane

so as far as I can understand the problem is the OS not the ipad model itself...
which iOS do you have on your iOS?
the App is compatible with iOS 5.1 and later...
BTW, if you don't have the latest iOS available for your device, you can have your good reason...

many thanks, again!

Phantom75,
The original Ipads will not load the latest and greatest OS updates from Apple.
Mine is as updated as it will ever get.

Deane

Deane,
as far as I know iOS 5.1 was available for iPad 1 too....probably not 6.1.
Maybe you missed the iOS 5.1 step so now you cannot update to the latest iOS (6.1)

there is the possibilty to install older iOS version (5.1) using iTunes,
but the explanation would be long and very OT.

if you are interested give a look with Google...
on the other side even iOS 5.1 could be too heavy for iPad1...

Phantom75,
You were right. I just now downloaded the Performance Editor and it runs just great. Now I have to figure out how to use it.

Thanks,
Deane

That's good news. I look forward to hearing your opinion, Deane.

Hi Deane

What's all this talk about the Ipad ? I am much more looking forward ( and no doubt many with me) to your appraisal of the kebyboard itself, its sounds, its styles and overall impression in relation to the PA900 which you had for a short space of time as well as the yamaha and korg currently in your possession !!!!

regards,
John

Diki,
The Performance Editor is a very useful app. It provides easy access to the tools needed to tweak sounds and EQ settings. In my opinion Roland should have built this ease of use into their OS. it will no doubt make it a lot easier, especially for Roland OS newbies, to make adjustments to the keyboard. A major complaint though is the App really eats up the Ipad's battery. Yes, thee is a Wi-Fi system available - but again - why should owners have to shell out even more money for items that are really unrelated to the keyboard? Roland needs to seriously rethink all of this. By the way, I don't think the double screen is all that helpful either. Why not a great touch screen like the Korgs have?

Deane

John,
It is much to soon for me to comment with any credibility on the sounds, and styles because out of the box the BK-9 is nearly useless for what I do and the audiences I perform for. I need a bit more time with the keyboard to give it a fair appraisal. I expect sometime in the upcoming week I will write a full review and post it both here and on the Roland-Arranger site.

Deane