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#371029 - 08/25/13 08:37 AM My Review of the Roland BK-9
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2403
Loc: Texas
I have had the Roland BK-9 now for a week and have been able to spend 6 to 8 hours a day with it. I am not a Roland Guru but I am always willing to try a new product. The following review is from the perspective of a player who relies on the ARRANGER features, factory styles, and factory sounds to be used for live performances. I do not play piano style using the full keyboard so the 61 keys was not important to me. Nor do I sample sounds, create styles, compose music, or do much of anything else but play the keyboard in arranger mode with a split keyboard making use of the OTS sounds. I am not a singer so those features used by singers are not important to me. What I look for in any keyboard is it’s ease of use, quality sounds that actually sound like the real instrument, usable styles for the type of music I play, and tools which are easy to use to make simple changes to RH lead voices and EQ settings. I have owned, and gigged with, all of the following keyboards. Yamaha PSR3000, Tyros 3, Tyros 4 and PSR S950. Korg PA1X, PA2XPro, PA600, and PA900. Roland E50, E80, and BK-7M. My sound system is a Bose L1 Compact speaker. Sometimes I use very good stereo headphones. My review will be based on how the BK-9 compares to these keyboards and my experience with them.

KEY FEEL: Better then most and much better then the S950. The BK-9 keys seem to respond quicker than all the others – very fast passages seem easier to play. There is a very solid feel to the keys.

EASE OF USE: No keyboard beats any of the Korgs I have owned for ease of use. I would have to rate the BK-9 at the bottom of the list in this category. The menus run deep, are not intuitive, at least to me, and are useless for making on the fly changes
during live playing. The OS is a challenge to learn compared to Korg’s. The general button layout is ok and did not take a lot of time learn. I do not like the rotary dial used to make selections from the menus. Seems very clumsy to me. Even Yamaha’s button system is better to me.

SCREEN: The screen is small but easy to see. However, I have yet to understand why Roland decided to use two small screens rather than a good touch screen system. Roland claims the two screens can be used to do two things at the same time or at least view multiple things at the same time. That actually is true but I have not yet figured out how that is an advantage for live playing or better than a good touch screen.

USER MANUAL: Believe it or not I found it very useful but hardly complete. Seems like Roland writers have written the manual from the perspective the reader should already know how to use the keyboard. Roland was more interested in touting the new features of the BK-9 rather then provide a good “lets get started” type guide. I think the Yamaha user guides provided a better how to get started section.

STYLES: Where do I start? First of all, I do not play modern style music and it is getting harder to find styles on all of the keyboards which match up with the music I play. My gig lists are designed to please the 60-90 age group. This puts a heavy demand for great Big Band styles, Dixieland styles, Country styles, Swing styles, Boogie styles, Waltz styles, 50’s Rock Styles and Latin styles. The catch is, these styles cannot be “in your face” loud or harsh in nature. The instrumentation and rhythm section of the styles must be realistic. One of the first things I look for is the keyboard’s ability to play legacy styles which often are a better fit for my needs. I have a collection of over 10,000 Roland styles including the BK-7M, E50, E80, and Prelude styles and they do not play well on the BK-9! Some do not even load! Those that will play would require so much work to be useful it is not worth the time. How about the factory styles – variations 1 and 2 are pretty good on all of them. Variation 3 is way to busy on a lot of them and variation 4 is a total mess on most of them. (sorry, but that is what I am hearing when I audition styles.) Oh yes, I am not happy with how Roland organizes the styles. For instance they have country styles in various categories making it hard to find things.


GENERAL EQ SETTINGS: Out of the box the BK-9 was extremely bass heavy to the point of sounding muddy. I turned off the EQ settings and that made a big difference. But I have not yet found a suitable EQ mix that makes everything on the keyboard sound good.
To be fair, I don’t know a lot about mixing and EQ settings. So a lot of this issue might be user error. But there is another side to this. Roland has provided super useful tools to get all this right if you know what you are doing. My question to Roland is, where is the
simple adjustment system for those of us who are not sound engineers???? But, I’ll keep working on it. Yamaha has all these keyboards beat for providing simple to use and understand EQ adjustment settings.

SPEAKER SYSTEM: There are no built-in speakers. Speakers would have been nice and provide a great on-stage monitoring system.

NEAT FEATURES: I like the D-BEAM CONTROLLER. It is easy to use and easy to setup. It is neat that you can save 10 of your FAVORITE SOUNDS and can recall them at the touch of a button. However, you can do the same thing on Yamaha keyboards using registrations and can have as many sets of 8 sounds as you want. One thing the BK-9 does is allow you to save 10 favorite sounds for all 4 sounds of the style. The BK-9 has the best THUMB DRIVE PLACEMENT of all the keyboards. HARMONIC BARS – what a neat concept provided you are in love with organ sounds and use them often. So far, when I tried them I found them to be extremely ‘Shrill’ and voiced in extreme ranges and Roland has used them in styles where they just don’t belong. All of this can be adjusted but right now this is not a priority for me. Other organ sounds also seem to be harsh and totally out of balance with the styles. Again, this can be adjusted - but why are these things not corrected at the factory? Don’t get me wrong here. I absolutely love the B3 stuff, but the out-of-the-box setup for the organ sounds is terrible. ASSIGNABLE SWITCHES – 4 of them with a variety of useful settings for just about anything you might need. Location of the switches could have been better.

GLOBAL SETTINGS: I want the keyboard split point and the OTS to remain on all the time unless I purposely turn it off. I have not found a place yet in Global settings where these can be set and locked. The result is various styles turn them off or on. I think I have simply overlooked where this can be set but it should not be this hard to locate. There are other settings I have set that return to factory default on a restart. The manual indicates Global settings are automatically saved when changed but I am not sure that is 100% true.

MIXER 10 SLIDER SYSTEM: I have not yet figured out how to use these properly. The sliders assigned to R1 and R2 work really great out-of–the-box. I can’t tell much difference in sound when trying the other sliders so far. This could very well be that I don’t know how to use them properly. One thing I don’t like about them is if they are in the down position and you move them the sound stops and you have to move them to the full up position to get the sound back. There must be a setting for this somewhere!!!!

MAKEUP TOOLS: It seems to me Roland has complicated using the makeup tools. I remember on the E50 it was very simple to just select a category from a list and the changes were made to the rhythm in question. Admittedly, now there seems to be many
more adjustments that can be made but that has added complexity.

MUSIC ASSISTANT: The music assistant supplied by Roland cannot be edited or deleted. Why???? You can create your own music assistant files and save them to the thumb drive.

FEATURES I DON’T USE OR HAVE NOT YET USED:
Audio Loops, Audio Recorder, Midi Recorder, 16 Track Sequencer, Chord Sequencer, Wireless Lan Connection, Assignable Foot Switches other than Hold, Rhythm Composer, Microphone adjustments.

I hope readers have found this of use. To the best of my knowledge what I have written is accurate. If not, please feel free to add corrections or advice in follow-up posts.

Deane

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#371030 - 08/25/13 10:03 AM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: hammer]
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: Oradea, RO
Thanks for this review. Useful. I think there are many things to be discovered still, but for a "first impression" it is very informative.
_________________________
Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#371031 - 08/25/13 10:36 AM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: hammer]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Good forthright review Deane...many arranger players use the instruments exactly as you do, and will be interested in how "user-friendly" the BK-9 is, as well as the availability of useful styles and overall out-of-the-box sound.

I also appreciate your unbiased attitude (something I don't have being a dyed-in-the-wool Yamaha fan)...very refreshing.

Keep the reports coming as I will pass on your observations to those I know with interest in the BK-9.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#371040 - 08/25/13 03:58 PM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: hammer]
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14265
Loc: NW Florida
I'd probably say that this keyboard really needs the FC-7 footswitch unit...

I agree that there is much that is buried in sub-menus, and without a touch screen or the iPad app, they are often a pain to get to, live. Mind you, so does everything else (bury things you need), but touch screens allow you to get to them much faster. However, most of the things you are likely to want to change while actually playing can be placed on the FC-7 or the four Assign Switches. That's eleven commands (that you get to choose which) in addition to what the buttons can already do.

One of the advantages of the dual screen that I have found so far is that you can display lyrics AND still see what is going on with the arranger (mixer, drawbar settings, stuff like that) - most arrangers, the lyrics preclude seeing anything else, but I completely agree that Roland should have stuck with the E/G series touch screens. However, in their defense, I'll point out that the BK-9 came out well after the BK-5/3/7m, and, as budget arrangers, they couldn't afford the touch screen. I really doubt anything but a major redesign of the OS would allow the BK-9 to have a touch screen system as it is based on the OS of those cheaper arrangers. Many manufacturers design the flagship first, then spin off the MOTL and BOTL arrangers from that. But this time, Roland designed the BOTL first.

The Hammond sim MUST have an expression pedal. Just as a real B3 does. Try playing a B3 without touching the swell pedal, and you'll find things getting shrill up top just like the BK-9 does..!

I'd be interested in whether the legacy styles play well on the BK-7m, but not on the BK-9. And whether they are actual Roland styles, or conversions. Most older styles that I've loaded play OK. Naturally, everything needs Makeup Tooling to address the newer sounds and drumkits, and there is some work needed to tweak for the kits (old styles made no difference between a high velocity low volume drum Part and a low velocity, high volume Part, but now there is a huge difference, thank God!). I think it is pretty unreasonable to expect a 20 year old style to play on a 21st century arranger, and sound spot on. But as long as all the intros, endings, variations and fills work, the rest is easy (IMO).

BTW, while we are on the Makeup Tools, I haven't found any difference yet between the G70/E890 Makeup Tools capabilities and the BK-9's. The only difference is how easy the touch screen made it.

As to the default Mastering Tools EQ and compression presets... I think you may have your Bose a bit bass heavy (they always seem over hyped in the bass and treble to my ears anyway!) but on my studio nearfields (Mackie HR824's, so bass is tight and solid) I agree that it is a hair over the top, but nothing I'd call muddy. All I did was dial the main preset back a db or two on the highs and lows, and things seem pretty spot on. Those Bose already have a huge 'smile' on the sound, I think that is where the extra mud is coming from. I don't see how a 3 band semi parametric EQ is any more complicated than any other arranger... they ALL pretty much have a 3 band EQ these days, don't they? Truth is, the Mastering section is identical to your E50/80 and BK-7m. Only the display style changes from the E series. You managed OK with that, didn't you?

Perhaps we can get together on the Roland-arranger.com site, and I'll try to help you with getting up to speed on the BK-9. Admittedly, I play almost exactly the opposite of what you do, I rarely play anything to the 60+ crowd, but I'm starting to get a feel for the thing now. It still keeps surprising me with how good it can be. It is just a completely different beast from the G70, OS-wise.

Thanks for the review...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#371044 - 08/25/13 05:15 PM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: Diki]
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2403
Loc: Texas
Hi Diki,
I totally agree with your points. I didn't even think about the expression pedal on the B3s - you are right on point. I spent about 5 hours with the BK-9 today and discovered a few more things. I paid more attention to the two screens and they do provide different information while playing. Honestly, I am liking the BK-9 more with each session I spend with it. Today I managed to get a play list for a gig setup in a performance folder. There is a lot to learn because I am discovering there are several ways I can play the keyboard and get some very good results.

By the way, the Bose L1 Compact has no built-in EQ system - it all must be done either with a mixer or on the keyboard.

Anyway, the VMA show is starting and I'am off to watch it.

Deane

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#371051 - 08/26/13 12:21 AM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: hammer]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Originally Posted By: hammer
I have had the Roland BK-9 now for a week and have been able to spend 6 to 8 hours a day with it. I am not a Roland Guru but I am always willing to try a new product. The following review is from the perspective of a player who relies on the ARRANGER features, factory styles, and factory sounds to be used for live performances. I do not play piano style using the full keyboard so the 61 keys was not important to me. Nor do I sample sounds, create styles, compose music, or do much of anything else but play the keyboard in arranger mode with a split keyboard making use of the OTS sounds. I am not a singer so those features used by singers are not important to me. What I look for in any keyboard is it’s ease of use, quality sounds that actually sound like the real instrument, usable styles for the type of music I play, and tools which are easy to use to make simple changes to RH lead voices and EQ settings. I have owned, and gigged with, all of the following keyboards. Yamaha PSR3000, Tyros 3, Tyros 4 and PSR S950. Korg PA1X, PA2XPro, PA600, and PA900. Roland E50, E80, and BK-7M. My sound system is a Bose L1 Compact speaker. Sometimes I use very good stereo headphones. My review will be based on how the BK-9 compares to these keyboards and my experience with them.

KEY FEEL: Better then most and much better then the S950. The BK-9 keys seem to respond quicker than all the others – very fast passages seem easier to play. There is a very solid feel to the keys.

EASE OF USE: No keyboard beats any of the Korgs I have owned for ease of use. I would have to rate the BK-9 at the bottom of the list in this category. The menus run deep, are not intuitive, at least to me, and are useless for making on the fly changes
during live playing. The OS is a challenge to learn compared to Korg’s. The general button layout is ok and did not take a lot of time learn. I do not like the rotary dial used to make selections from the menus. Seems very clumsy to me. Even Yamaha’s button system is better to me.

SCREEN: The screen is small but easy to see. However, I have yet to understand why Roland decided to use two small screens rather than a good touch screen system. Roland claims the two screens can be used to do two things at the same time or at least view multiple things at the same time. That actually is true but I have not yet figured out how that is an advantage for live playing or better than a good touch screen.

USER MANUAL: Believe it or not I found it very useful but hardly complete. Seems like Roland writers have written the manual from the perspective the reader should already know how to use the keyboard. Roland was more interested in touting the new features of the BK-9 rather then provide a good “lets get started” type guide. I think the Yamaha user guides provided a better how to get started section.

STYLES: Where do I start? First of all, I do not play modern style music and it is getting harder to find styles on all of the keyboards which match up with the music I play. My gig lists are designed to please the 60-90 age group. This puts a heavy demand for great Big Band styles, Dixieland styles, Country styles, Swing styles, Boogie styles, Waltz styles, 50’s Rock Styles and Latin styles. The catch is, these styles cannot be “in your face” loud or harsh in nature. The instrumentation and rhythm section of the styles must be realistic. One of the first things I look for is the keyboard’s ability to play legacy styles which often are a better fit for my needs. I have a collection of over 10,000 Roland styles including the BK-7M, E50, E80, and Prelude styles and they do not play well on the BK-9! Some do not even load! Those that will play would require so much work to be useful it is not worth the time. How about the factory styles – variations 1 and 2 are pretty good on all of them. Variation 3 is way to busy on a lot of them and variation 4 is a total mess on most of them. (sorry, but that is what I am hearing when I audition styles.) Oh yes, I am not happy with how Roland organizes the styles. For instance they have country styles in various categories making it hard to find things.


GENERAL EQ SETTINGS: Out of the box the BK-9 was extremely bass heavy to the point of sounding muddy. I turned off the EQ settings and that made a big difference. But I have not yet found a suitable EQ mix that makes everything on the keyboard sound good.
To be fair, I don’t know a lot about mixing and EQ settings. So a lot of this issue might be user error. But there is another side to this. Roland has provided super useful tools to get all this right if you know what you are doing. My question to Roland is, where is the
simple adjustment system for those of us who are not sound engineers???? But, I’ll keep working on it. Yamaha has all these keyboards beat for providing simple to use and understand EQ adjustment settings.

SPEAKER SYSTEM: There are no built-in speakers. Speakers would have been nice and provide a great on-stage monitoring system.

NEAT FEATURES: I like the D-BEAM CONTROLLER. It is easy to use and easy to setup. It is neat that you can save 10 of your FAVORITE SOUNDS and can recall them at the touch of a button. However, you can do the same thing on Yamaha keyboards using registrations and can have as many sets of 8 sounds as you want. One thing the BK-9 does is allow you to save 10 favorite sounds for all 4 sounds of the style. The BK-9 has the best THUMB DRIVE PLACEMENT of all the keyboards. HARMONIC BARS – what a neat concept provided you are in love with organ sounds and use them often. So far, when I tried them I found them to be extremely ‘Shrill’ and voiced in extreme ranges and Roland has used them in styles where they just don’t belong. All of this can be adjusted but right now this is not a priority for me. Other organ sounds also seem to be harsh and totally out of balance with the styles. Again, this can be adjusted - but why are these things not corrected at the factory? Don’t get me wrong here. I absolutely love the B3 stuff, but the out-of-the-box setup for the organ sounds is terrible. ASSIGNABLE SWITCHES – 4 of them with a variety of useful settings for just about anything you might need. Location of the switches could have been better.

GLOBAL SETTINGS: I want the keyboard split point and the OTS to remain on all the time unless I purposely turn it off. I have not found a place yet in Global settings where these can be set and locked. The result is various styles turn them off or on. I think I have simply overlooked where this can be set but it should not be this hard to locate. There are other settings I have set that return to factory default on a restart. The manual indicates Global settings are automatically saved when changed but I am not sure that is 100% true.

MIXER 10 SLIDER SYSTEM: I have not yet figured out how to use these properly. The sliders assigned to R1 and R2 work really great out-of–the-box. I can’t tell much difference in sound when trying the other sliders so far. This could very well be that I don’t know how to use them properly. One thing I don’t like about them is if they are in the down position and you move them the sound stops and you have to move them to the full up position to get the sound back. There must be a setting for this somewhere!!!!

MAKEUP TOOLS: It seems to me Roland has complicated using the makeup tools. I remember on the E50 it was very simple to just select a category from a list and the changes were made to the rhythm in question. Admittedly, now there seems to be many
more adjustments that can be made but that has added complexity.

MUSIC ASSISTANT: The music assistant supplied by Roland cannot be edited or deleted. Why???? You can create your own music assistant files and save them to the thumb drive.

FEATURES I DON’T USE OR HAVE NOT YET USED:
Audio Loops, Audio Recorder, Midi Recorder, 16 Track Sequencer, Chord Sequencer, Wireless Lan Connection, Assignable Foot Switches other than Hold, Rhythm Composer, Microphone adjustments.

I hope readers have found this of use. To the best of my knowledge what I have written is accurate. If not, please feel free to add corrections or advice in follow-up posts.

Deane



Solid review. Can you please do the same for PA 900 and PSRS950 from ARRANGER player's perspective? Review of the styles and their programming only.


Thanks.


Edited by jamman (08/26/13 12:50 AM)

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#371057 - 08/26/13 03:30 AM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: jamman]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.

Thanks Deane for your elaborate review so far. ( Janman, I think you are over asking here, really....).

First and foremost I would like to state that in my view there are no bad or poor arranger keyboards left. The totl are all excellent each in their own way, the motl arrangers (BK9, PA900 and PSR950) are almost sensational in relation to their pricetag and so are the lower motl arrangers like the PA600 and the PSR750. Hell even the KMA (= PA50=PA80) is still a very attractive package in view of its performance - price relation.
That having said I would like to repeat the view that has been expressed by virtually most overhere that the OS on the Roland BK9 is not all that friendly and that the lack of a touchscreen is almost disastrous. Reading Deane's review one can once again see how virtually all manufacturers fail ( on purpose ?) to get the balance right between the most elementary things such as the respective volumes of RH sounds, LH sounds and the volumes of the acc. tracks. Sure, all can be adjusted etc. but why would they persist in this obvious shortcoming ? And adjusting these is just the first round of tweaking after which many more rounds have to follow to make it sound the way you want it to. As such, once again, the presence of a touchscreen has almost become imperative.
Deane now owing all three brands it will be interesting to see his final appraisal after a few weeks of the sounds and styles, after all the crux of the matter. I do wish him many happy hours of tweaking, always rewarding in the end no matter which arranger that you owe and like I said , look forward to his ultimate appraisal.

regards,
John

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#371060 - 08/26/13 04:47 AM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: john smies]
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: Oradea, RO
Originally Posted By: john smies
... virtually all manufacturers fail ( on purpose ?) to get the balance right between the most elementary things such as the respective volumes of RH sounds, LH sounds and the volumes of the acc. tracks.


Most likely because no matter what balance they will do, it will not fit with your/mine/their concept of balance! smile
_________________________
Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#371079 - 08/26/13 11:49 AM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: hammer]
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14265
Loc: NW Florida
I think the balance is out of whack on most factory default Performances because most arranger players are not pros... they want to hear themselves loud and clear over the backing (takes real skill to get used to hearing what you are playing WITHIN a mix rather than on top of it) and few of them have a consistent and firm finger strength, hence they play much softer than most pros.

But there's a simple solution... Most arrangers have a Keyboard/Style balance knob or slider somewhere easy to get to. I generally back that off at least 30% or more, then jack the Styles' Drum and Bass Parts up a hair if I have to. That's a lot easier and quicker than having to edit every bloody style individually!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#371082 - 08/26/13 11:59 AM Re: My Review of the Roland BK-9 [Re: hammer]
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14265
Loc: NW Florida
And John... I must confess, coming from Roland and messing a lot with a PA3X lately, I find the exact opposite of your experience! I find the Korg OS completely unintuitive, opaque, and needlessly complicated. Even a nice touch screen doesn't help!

Now, that doesn't mean that it IS unintuitive, it simply means that, for someone used to the Roland OS, Korg do almost everything differently.

And for someone intimately used to a Korg, it is not in the least surprising to find them somewhat perplexed by how Roland do things. However, coming from Roland, I have no issues with the BK-9's OS at all. Yes, the touch screen speeds things up, but if you are having trouble with the OS, the screen isn't really the issue.

Not to mention, Roland's iPad apps make a quantum difference to how speedy and user friendly the OS can be. And yes, while it may be a pain to have to get one (I had resisted up to now), a BK-9 and an iPad is still CONSIDERABLY less than the G70 was OOTB. For something that sounds amazingly better, has far better capabilities, and returns the Chord Sequencer to me after 12 years of moaning its loss! Not to mention easy loop triggering, 5 insert effects, independent mastering sections for style and SMF section from the Keyboard Parts, etc..

You know me. I don't change at the drop of a hat. Something has to be SERIOUSLY better before I move on. The BK-9 is that good..!

clap
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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