For professionals Diki is correct, (Hence workstations are so popular) however the Arranger keyboard has always been designed for the home player (There a cheaper spin off of the home organ) which probably account for about 95% of the sales of arrangers, and as most home players aren’t interested in midi or linking things together, (Apart from adding a slave keyboard and pedals to make it like a portable organ) therefore there is zero incentive for arranger manufactures to agree on a common style communication method a sales increase would be minimal.

Bill

I don't wish to be rude, but is there any evidence that most home players aren't interested in midi or linking things together?

Read any home organ/keyboard magazine, ask the punters at any of the keyboard festivals, ask the punters at the many organ/keyboard clubs and finally just talk to users who play these keyboards, (there are also many forums about) and they all say the same. “I don’t what to get involved with that” “I want to play not mess about with wires and incomprehensible manuals”

Bill

Chass,
I think Bill is pretty correct there. From my experience I would say by far most of them, even should they have more than one arranger keyboard, don't want to meddle with MIDI intricacies.That is basically the reason for my thread and suggestio in the first place. By merely connecting the acc. sections of two arrangers in general you set the first easy step which for the great majority will be amply sufficient.
At least I experience on a daily basis how comfy it is to play the two arrangers (acc. section) from just the lower keyboard.

regards
John

Apart from MIDI how many player actually use or even delve into the many facilities of the modern keyboard after having paid large amounts of money for additions they never use.
Myself I like to learn everything my board can offer and doing so actually improves my playing with the added facilities.

I would guess the Roland BK7M would be the ideal solution to a setup like this. Its meant to be controlled form another instrument so setup may be easier than a stand alone unit.

I fully agree with Graham's statement above. I have been amazed at the number of individuals that never remove their user manual from the plastic, Zip-Loc bag let alone delve into the inner workings of their arranger keyboard's operating system.

One of the problems, though, is the poorly written user/owner manuals. I spent an hour searching the user manual for the TC Helicon Voice Live 2 last night for specific instructions on MIDI connection to the device. That manual is so poorly constructed that I doubt that anyone could find anything resembling a step by step procedure for connecting an arranger keyboard to the Voice Live 2.

Gary

I think all of the keyboard manufacturers have missed using the one tool that I make for myself with each new keyboard and that is the menu tree view or graphic.

In this case, one picture might even be better than a million words. ;-)

I finally made one for my Motif when I had it and that totally made sense of everything and the keyboard so much easier to understand.

Bill G

I think most people confuse a manual with a tutorial. That isn't the purpose of a manual. A manual lays out the capabilities and the operational path for a product, a tutorial assumes you don't know how to operate a product at all, and steps you through the initial operation of the product.

If you want tutorials, contact your manufacturer. Or PAY someone to write them (don't steal their .PDF's!). Make it worth their while.

Thing is, I'm amazed at the confusion people have here at figuring out stuff that has been on the last two or three arrangers they have had! People buying new arrangers before they have bothered to figure out the one they have. I imagine half of them go for features they don't even know is already on the one they have! In fact, half the people here probably use arrangers the same way they did when they first got their first arranger! Free panel, call up everything as you go along.

Trouble is, of course, that first arranger they bought had maybe 30 styles, 60 sounds total, and no panel memory! If that's how you want to run things, stick to an old arranger..

If not, crack the manual, use the myriad resources on the web to talk to people that HAVE figured out how to do stuff, and figure out that, if you want to buy a wonder machine that can do a million things, you MIGHT need to work just a bit harder than that first arranger you bought.

You buy a car, it doesn't come with instructions on how to drive...

Diki, almost everything you stated above is right on the money. Almost! Many, many years ago I wrote technical manuals, and they were just as I described - step by step instructions on how to do something with a particular piece of equipment. These were not tutorials - they were clear, concise user/owner manuals, which in this instance, was for the use of certain medical devices. A defibrillator comes with an owner/operator manual - not a tutorial. A pacemaker comes with an installation manual for the surgeon to follow step by step. A cardiac catheter is shipped with a manual that provides clear, concise, step by step instructions on how to use the various devices that are safely inserted through the catheter. (Gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that your surgeon had to read a manual in order to perform a certain, life-saving procedure. )

One of my first Yamaha arranger keyboards had a very well written manual that allowed the user to sit down with the manual next to the keyboard and go through the various features - step by step, and with photos of the screens and buttons on the various subject pages. That was more than 20 years ago. The keyboard had more than 100 styles, more than 100 voices, and a lot of neat features within various menus. It took months of going through that manual sitting next to the keyboard to find out what each and every feature did, and how I could utilize those features to their fullest extent for what I was doing. It was a lot of work, but worth every minute I invested.

Your NEW car DOES come with a very well written manual with lots of step by step instructions. The one that came with my Dodge Grand Caravan has detailed instructions and photos of how to change the serpentine belt, oil filter, tail-lights, headlights, cabin filters, interior lights, the locations and types of fuses, and dozens of other things that owners should know. There are detailed instructions and photos of how to jack up your car, remove a flat tire, the amount of torque required for the lug nuts, how to access the spare tire (doughnut), where the jack and lug wrench is stored, etc... And, if you took the time to read the manual that came with your car, which most people NEVER DO, you would have noticed there is a section on starting the car, putting it in gear, buckling your seatbelt, adjusting the mirrors, adjusting the seat position, filling the gas tank, load capacity, and driving in hazardous conditions. There's a section on using the cruise control, detailed instructions and photos of what each button does, and there's even instructions and photos on where the horn button is located. This is not a TUTORIAL - it's in the owner's manual that came with the car. The difference is that car manuals and medical device manuals must follow certain guidelines, while there are likely no guidelines for manuals pertaining to musical equipment - BUT THERE SHOULD BE!

Unfortunately, in this wonderful world of instant gratification, damned few people ever make an effort to read anything unless it's on an LCD/LED screen directly in front of their face, and even then they tend to browse over things instead of really reading them. Two decades ago, music gear came with well written, well constructed, concise, detailed owner/user manuals. A decade ago, manufacturers discovered it was a lot less expensive to put that manual on a CD and ship it with the equipment. Today, the only manual you get seems to have been created well after the product was created and produced, thus a garbage, poorly-written, vague, nondescript, poorly bound book comes with your very expensive musical equipment. If you want more information, you can go to the manufacturer's web site and download additional manuals in PDF format, manuals which were apparently written by the same eggheads that produced the one that came with your musical device.

Of course, you can call customer service, which in many instances results in being put on hold listening to elevator music for hours on end while waiting for the next service technician to answer. Of course, there's that nagging, computerized voice that comes on every 30 seconds that says "All of our service representatives are currently busy helping other customers. Your call will be answered by the next, available technician. Or, you can go to our website at www.bull$hit.net." If you go to the website you will search through endless pages of meaningless crap that never answers your questions, or just takes you to 10,000 other, garbage links.

When he or she does answer, which sometimes never happens because you get disconnected, you discover that person doesn't understand a word you are saying for a host of reasons, not the least of which is they don't speak the same language, or they have no knowledge of the subject matter and must put you on hold so they can ask their supervisor. Had that information been spelled out in clear, concise terms in the user/owner manual you wouldn't have been on the phone, on hold, in the first place. You could have found the information in the index, then went to the pages that provided the instructions you needed to get the job done.

I need a Margaretta!

Gary