Since I became a member (a few years ago), I've seen many video's of other (US) Synthzone members performing with an Arranger Keyboard for an audience. Somehow I'm always asking myself how the audience is tolerating the level of the performer. Let me be clear, I do not question someone's skills, but I do question the level of expectation that most audiences have in video's that are occasionally posted on Synthzone.

Most performances are certainly not bad, but if you would give the exact same performance in a decent Dutch restaurant/old people's home/whatsoever, they would use tarring and feathering to get you out.

Besides some exceptions (some bars in the Netherlands also hire average Arranger Keyboard entertainers), most people that hire a piano guy would expect a conservatory student. For example: my own skills would be enough for a wedding providing background music, but that's it.

In other words, is the standard lower in the US or am I missing something?

Would like to hear your opinion.

Best Regards,

Joost

Tostie,
Suffice it to say that people have bad taste. Instead of Sinatra, Fitzgerald and company, they prefer "Rap" and even the supposed educated TV personalities etc refer to it as music. Think about it. If Rap is music then Mary Had A Little Lamb is some of the most sophisticated poetry ever written.

I bet in an average audience anywhere on Earth the majority of them will not be able to sing a simple melody in tune. I've had people argue that Johnny Cash and others were the greatest vocalist of all time.

Some of those guys were very entertaining making them terrific entertainers, but not by a long shot a good vocalist nor a good musician. Many were just at the right place at the right time and they became famous "entertainers," and they made plenty of money. Very, very few great musicians ever made plenty of money.

When I was in my teens our band was learning "September Song" and other standards and our competition was trying to play those songs too, with three chords. It didn't matter to the audience,they liked our competitors better then our band.

They had better equipment then us and very attractive uniforms. It's all about showmanship, not how good of a musician the person is. They were better entertainers then we were.

It even gets worse if the audience is intoxicated. It's life friend! Like my deceased sister-in-law said: "Life Sucks."Live it.

I go to the local bar and restaurant occasionally when I can't get the Saints or LSU on my TV. By the 4th quarter they start Karaoke. I can't believe the nerve of some people up there trying to sing. That's fine they are having fun and that is great. The sad part is that some of the audience think that that person is a terrific singer. Go figure.

Joost, let me say that you are an exceptional player, however, I agree with everything Boo stated above. I guess I'm somewhat fortunate in that I've always had a decent voice. My vocals provided me with a good living when I was doing voice-overs for car commercials on local radio and TV, it kept the family fed when I did newscasts on the radio, and it still provides me with a good income as an OMB entertainer.

That said, I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, a good musician. Sure, I can play most of the chords I need to put most songs together, and provide some right-hand lead and comps, but there are 12-year-old kids that can play circles around me. Now, I have performed in Europe when I was a young kid in a small band when in the employ of the U.S. Navy. And at every location we performed, mostly in the Mediterranean area, the audiences loved us, and we were not that good by a long shot. I'm not sure, however, if they loved my vocals, or just loved American music because it was new and exciting to European audiences back in the late 1950s. We played mainly in bars, but the only drunks we had to contend with were American sailors.

Boo's statement pertaining to Karaoke is right on the money. My sister and brother-in-law go to the local American Legion every Friday night for Karaoke. Neither of them sing, and they applaud for nearly every singer that gets up there and makes horrible noises they sincerely believe sounds great. When I ask my sister why she applauds for those horrific vocals, she usually responds "We'll, they just having fun, and we have fun listening to them." For the life of me, I've never understood that mentality - especially when it comes to music.

Gary

Hi Joost
I am taking your question at face value, without any criticism intended.

I think that since I consider you to be an above average musician, and, would only be suitable for weddings, the expectations are very high. I have always know that there has always been a lot of talent there, but I am surprised it has come to this.

As far as Karaoke is concerned, I run a weekly show, as well as playing and singing at other venues. I know that some of my people applaud less than stellar performance by some of the singers as merely a courtesy.

Bernie

Tostie,

Me thinks you have hit a raw nerve and Bernie thinks you are above average, good, I would go with that, expect I would put you way way above average, I would even goes as far as to say you are the best player I have heard on a T4, as good as if not better than the people who work for and demo Yamaha keyboards.

But hey Tostie this is just my opinion of you, not everyone who sees and hears your work on SZ is going to say that, or post good reviews (figure it out).

People who put up their work on SZ are not going to get criticised, they are not going to be told they are crap, average, below average or what ever, my wife tells me I am playing better these days, she's losing here hearing, people on SZ are gentle folk, they only go into hyper drive when you tell them their keyboard is crap.

I think the acceptance level in homes for the elderly is not a good place to judge anyone's playing, not to be disrespectful the judges are past there best at judging, are lot tone deaf!

A friend of mine is manager at an APH in the UK, he booked a chap with a guitar one night for entertainment, the chap was very good, after the show was over my friend took two one chaps up in the lift to bed, he said to them " what did you think of the entertainment ?" one chap said "what entertainment!!!"

Now if you sing as good as you play Tostie the world is your oyster.

This is not a PROFESSIONAL Arranger players' forum, Tostie..!

We have players of all skill levels and ages. I think what you'll notice is that the regular working players here, at least those outside the NH circuit, rarely post any work. They generally don't need validation of their skills by those here (who seem predominantly amateur in skill level), and on the whole, little is received well unless it fits into their small, blinkered view of music (Boo's rant is fairly typical... 'New music bad, old music good!'), so why bother?

Overall, we have a plethora of demos by elderly players, playing elderly music to the elderly. Talk about a captive audience!

Secondly, Tostie, we don't have the gigs for arranger players that Europe provides. Other than NH type gigs, solo keyboard gigs are few and far between. For starters, this isn't a country where people tend to get together and sing... Karaoke is something of an exception, but rather than the EU model of people singing TOGETHER, karaoke is more a watchers sport, laughing while your co-workers squirm uncomfortably and sing badly! Schadenfreude, to be honest. We seem to be gaining more and more of this in our 'popular' entertainment over here, lately. Bit like Germany in the 20's, and we know what happened to them!

But, on the whole, Americans don't gather together to sing, and need someone to provide backing... This tends to mean that in general, keyboard players with real skills still play in real bands, and only those that can't end up playing the NH circuit, or functions for the elderly. And those gigs are few and far between enough that there's no incentive to learn to play well, give each other competition for gigs, and allow the cream to rise to the top.

As I've read in thread after thread here, most arranger players' priorities seem to lie in how portable and easy to set up their rigs can get, or how small a PA they can get away with, and rarely is any desire to try to PLAY better discussed..!

I think that if we had the employment opportunities that some EU countries afforded, we'd see a migration of the really good players away from bands onto the arranger, but right now, generally, if you WANT to play with a real band and have skills, you can. Why would anyone want to play hoary old music to hoaky old codgers if they didn't HAVE to? LOL

Diki,

In a nut shell i.e. a paragraph, how would you describe SZ, a site that so many who are banned want to comeback and those banned have a following that want them to come back. There is some draw from SZ, there's a hard core of posters and perhaps a lot of people who look and won't come near, you can tell by the hits.

SZ was once fun and in particularly the fun hinged on new arrangers, like I said earlier " My arrangers better than your arranger " Is that what's it's come down to.

BTW if new music is crap, don't listen to it' Boom Boom Boom

Nobody, to my knowledge is 'banned' here, Tony. At least, not recently. In fact, notice Boo's reappearance? LOL

All that is happening is those that cannot tell the difference between disagreement and downright personal rudeness and character attacks are given some time away to reconsider their grammar..! But a complete ban? Haven't seen one of those in ages.

I think, TBH, if you take a look back in the archives, you'll see on the whole, nothing has changed. This has ALWAYS been a 'mine's better than yours' forum..! We haven't really added a whole lot of new members (which kind of reflects how poorly arrangers sell in the English speaking market compared to synths and WS's) and those still here are getting more and more entrenched and inflexible. But a look back in the archives gets to be quite deja vu, sometimes!

I think SZ is still fun, and still revolves around chewing the fat over new arrangers (the S950, BK-9 and PA900 have provided endless discussion, lately) and getting up in yo grill about which one is 'best'!

The truth is though, with work, just about any of them now will do. For what we tend to make them do (few are pushing the boundaries of new music with them), any of them is very capable.

Kind of takes the fun out of it, doesn't it?!

Diki,

I was just a little confused when you said this is not a PROFESSIONAL Arranger players forum, I thought a few of the heavy duty posters do get paid for what they do, surely that makes them professional, which side are you on.