You've been gone a while, I guess, Tony. I am now the proud owner of a BK-9. It is taking me some time to get used to not having a touch screen (I am waiting until next month when there are rumors of new iPads coming out), and my work this year has primarily been live band, but I am more and more impressed with my BK-9, and having the Chord Sequencer back in Roland's feature set has made me one happy camper!

And while I admire Tostie's arranger stylings, I'm afraid musically we couldn't be much further apart. What he does is nice to listen to, but I doubt you'll ever find me playing in that style, with that kind of sound. All I have ever wanted is for my arranger to substitute for a GREAT kick-ass live band. Tyros's are very good at many things, but that isn't one of them!

Paying nearly three times as much for an arranger that can't convince me I'm playing with a real drummer is not in my future!

Not a lot of arranger players in my area...only three that are at an advanced level and are out gigging, primarily with a Tyros or high end PSR. I've been lucky, having the best of both worlds, I suppose, as I play arranger professionally and also play keyboards in a group setting...right now I am on a self imposed sabbatical until March of next year. In the meantime I still jam with some buds, and, of course, play every day on my Tyros4 doing up instrumentals in a style that sort of makes them my own. I like to keep my chops up in both areas.

Bottom line, at least for me, is that arrangers are just "tools of the trade"...I feel they are the same as any other electronic instrument or keyboard, and, for the most part, it really depends on the skill and creativity of the player to make the most of it. Joost and Rico are just two examples of exploiting the instruments fully, but each in his own way.

To me my arranger is both a "live" performance, and a recording instrument (the Tyros4/S950 are basically self contained studios, as are the Korg PA arrangers)...I use styles (personalized by me) when I play/record, and I don't use them to color my songs, rather I create songs by using styles... they're a crucial part of what I do ... I don't consider styles a crutch ... they're part of the art.

When I play in a band situation, I can often use ideas for comping that I picked up while listening to how the parts in the styles were played.

When Cassp started up the E-Jam on SZ a few years ago, we all got a fair idea of how many of the other members used their arrangers...I was very impressed with the fine work that was posted, both by vocalist/arranger users, and those who played strictly instrumentals. It was amazing to see/hear how those with limited keyboard skills managed to make up for it with clever arrangements or brilliant vocals, and not once did I feel there was any lack of talent or anything less than excellence and professionalism in their presentation.

The level of a "performance" is a sum of many parts, not just flashy keyboard licks or great vocal chops. It's a "package", and it's those who can create an attractive assemblage using their strengths and minimizing their weaknesses (or using them to their advantage) that maintain a high level.

Ian

This place reminds me of Carl's Music Center in Lexington. It's now closed after my best friend Carl died and his kids completely screwed the place up.

On Saturdays, lots of people would gather there. One group consisted of all working musicians...guys and gals with full time playing jobs.

Then there were the "hangers on" or "wanabees"..people who wanted to play professionally, were looking for work and mostly attended jam sessions.

After that, the "week-end warriors"..folks with little groups who played wherever and whenever they could find a small gig.

Then, there were the home hobbyists, retired players and beginners.

This was a really diverse group, with, as you would surmise, a vastly different array of skills in the areas of musicianship and entertainment.


Same here. I am interested in the postings of any/all members, because it gives me a window into the personality and abilities of the member(s).

For me, it;'s a "slippery slope". It's been mentioned here before (gingerly) that some of the professed pro players are absolutely terrible. That's OK (and, right, in some cases). What's not OK is over inflated opinions and responses which are efforts to place themselves in a position, reputation-wise that they cannot sustain with their performances.

Then, there is the "defend arrangers/knock arrangers" dichotomy....the "entertainer vs. musician" discussions.

Look, let's just enjoy each post for what it is. Let's not get bent out of shape when the "my vs. your" arranger discussion raises its ugly head.

This is an "equal opportunity" form, and it would be way smaller and really boring if it were only visited by excellent working arranger performers.

Look at what we have...a world-wide group of musicians with a wide variety of skills, backgrounds and opinions.

Let's all enjoy the posts, give honest opinions, and take the occasional criticism as the honest opinion of an international friend who's working in the same fabulous arena (music) as you are.

Warts and all, I'm really glad to be here.

And, I'm glad all of you (or at least the great majority LOL)
are too!


Russ

Russ,

You raise some very interesting points in your post, I knew from the very start that Tostie had opened a real can of worms, never mind, nothing like having a good blow of our noses.

As you rightly say "This was a really diverse group, with, as you would surmise, a vastly different array of skills in the areas of musicianship and entertainment."

You know yourself there are some people who get up and sing or perform on USA Got Talent and how they were ever let get up there is beyond belief, I think its the ratings.

I think every word you said in your post is probably true Russ, you have had time to think about what you wrote.

It's a great pity we don't talk about who's got the best or biggest car and how our gear just slips into the back of the car so easily getting to gigs, hells I for one in the UK would be embarrassed, I watched a bit of USA news video this week and every vehicle that went passed, you could get my focus inside.

Comparing keyboards appears to get the blood racing through the veins and there will never be a perfect KB (Doh! did I really say that)

In closing what I will says is this, you can criticize all you want about another AKB you don't have, but you cannot make a proper judgement until you take it home and play it for some length of time, in a shop won't do. I owned a G70, Audya and a T4, still got the latter, I nearly bought a MS, how do I know I might still have the MS best thing since sliced bread or just can't unload it.

Tostie, I don't know what the original intent of the post was but here in the UK we do have sparrows that shit and fly away, perhaps you should come back into the loop and enlighten us, at least comment on the case for the prosecution or defence so far, I will never question your ability to play a T4, but this post I am not certain were it was intended to go, it's certainly got a few people up tight.

BTW Tostie, I wouldn't tell members here that in your day job you are a Banker. perhaps come back some friendly investment advice would wipe the slate clean, not that we would trust you

Actually Tony, you may have something there...perhaps we could discuss what kind of vehicle we use for moving our gear, and why we have chosen such a particular model or type?

I don't think we have ever bandied about such a topic, at least in recent times, and it would be interesting to hear how each of us has handled a common issue.

Perhaps someone could start a topic relating to such a subject if they feel it's pertinent enough for discussion?

Ian ('02 Honda Accord owner)

Each country has different cultures, and each person has an individual opinion, therefore while one section may think something is brilliant, others would class it as rubbish, therefore please bear in mind that it is only Toasties opinion and not a fact that has been posted, thus there is absolutely no reason for anybody to get upset, or to feel belittled.

Bill

Probably the most interesting discussion tangential to this thread would be WHY musicians develop different skills in response to different audience expectations in different parts of the world...

In other words, what is it that makes say a Dutch audience different to an American one, or a British one, or a Russian one... What are the kinds of styles and songs they tend to want to hear, what are the kinds of gigs that the majority tend to play, what is the level of audience participation and expectation?

Before we all start simply comparing what we play, perhaps we need to look at WHY we play it...

A few years ago we did have a discussion about our vehicles. It was interesting.
DonM

But here, apparently, music is how fast you can set up and break down... LOL