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#386244 - 03/13/14 05:37 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Thanx Ian for listening,....I think you meant "Embraceable You"

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#386254 - 03/13/14 07:00 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
The only way I would be more impressed is if you sang this "live" over a style.

Nevertheless, this is still a very good job on one of my favorite tunes, and the SMF seems to work quite well, indeed.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#386255 - 03/13/14 07:08 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: ianmcnll]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
The only way I would be more impressed is if you sang this "live" over a style.

Nevertheless, this is still a very good job on one of my favorite tunes, and the SMF seems to work quite well, indeed.

Ian


Ian....dont know why some people are less then enthusiastic about creating a SMF backing track as it takes much more effort, creativity by the musician vs just a simple repetitive style where everything is done for you and you just operate it playing some chords etc,....not to mention the arrangements lack character many times also....styles are ok to a point,
but IMO the real talent lies in the creation of the arrangement for the song which you simply cannot do using styles using only a few parts. I'm glad we all have choices to mix it up and break up the monotony.


Edited by Dnj (03/13/14 07:08 AM)

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#386258 - 03/13/14 07:20 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Well, I'm less enthusiastic about singing over a SMF pre-recorded backing (even if it was made or edited by the singer) than I would be about the performer playing it all "live", by changing chords at the proper time and using fills, intros, endings, and right hand support as needed.

Singing over a SMF edges too close to Karaoke in my opinion, but that's just how I feel...perhaps others would disagree, but I feel a previously-recorded backing takes the performer further out of the performance.

I'm sure both methods have their advantages, but I've always been more impressed with singing "live" while using a style and adding Right Hand parts to embellish.

Nevertheless, you did a bang up job on the vocal and gave the song your own personal stamp.

Nice work, Donny.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#386262 - 03/13/14 07:40 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: ianmcnll]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Thanx Ian...BUT,

Recording part tracks on a SMF is not an easy task to get perfect & requires alot of skill IMO....now if someone creates a "STYLE from SCRATCH" I would give that person big KUDOS clap ...but to play pre made styles that easily can be manipulated vs a commercial SMF "WITHOUT" the injection of the MUSICIAN adding his creativity "LIVE" into the recording is basically the same thing Style or SMF as your comparing above,....it's all in the talent of the creator. Im just a singer/musician who backs himself up with an arranger keyboard & I'm glad I can do it both ways for a living.. cool2


Edited by Dnj (03/13/14 07:49 AM)

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#386267 - 03/13/14 08:15 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I'm glad your methods work for you Donny, but I'm still of the opinion that singing (with no playing) over a pre-recorded background is too close to Kareoke...the only difference would be the professionalism or talent of the vocalist.

Adding tracks to a SMF is difficult for some players, I suppose...I've never found it hard, as the correct chord changes have all been done for me ahead of time.

A Bossa style from "scratch" is still a Bossa style...to play a tune, the chord changes still have to be done by the player in "real time" unlike a SMF where the file's original creator determined what chords were used and where.

If singing over a SMF works best in some situations, by all means use one...nothing is set in stone. I just feel that singing over "live" style play (with Right Hand embellishments) is more engaging and less likely to sound exactly the same each time (again, my opinion).

i.e With style play, the performer can use Variations and Fills differently each time the tune is played...they can even spontaneously use a style from a different genre, or slightly alter a chord progression for a particular verse.

You don't need to defend your methods Donny...like you, I feel that the performer should do whatever it takes to get the job done as good as possible.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#386268 - 03/13/14 08:17 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
ok Ian I agree to DISagree..

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#386271 - 03/13/14 08:39 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
...have some popcorn, Donny.

Disagreeing is normal on this forum.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#386279 - 03/13/14 09:46 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I agree, Ian. For what it's worth, all songs, at least all the songs I know, are repetitious loops, no different than any style file. The style file does, however, provide us with breaks, fills and variations that can be utilized throughout the song as it progresses, so it does not sound repetitive.

Now, I occasionally use a midi file, some of which are really great, and when doing so, I'll usually comp with my right hand while singing the song. But, this technique, despite the fact that I am playing some of the parts, does border on Karaoke, IMO. However, no one in the audience really knows you are not playing, or for that matter, cares. They just want to be entertained, and that's why they're paying us. They could care less about our musicianship.

Cheers,

Gary cool
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#386281 - 03/13/14 09:50 AM Re: American Song Book [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
I agree, Ian. For what it's worth, all songs, at least all the songs I know, are repetitious loops, no different than any style file. The style file does, however, provide us with breaks, fills and variations that can be utilized throughout the song as it progresses, so it does not sound repetitive.

Now, I occasionally use a midi file, some of which are really great, and when doing so, I'll usually comp with my right hand while singing the song. But, this technique, despite the fact that I am playing some of the parts, does border on Karaoke, IMO. However, no one in the audience really knows you are not playing, or for that matter, cares. They just want to be entertained, and that's why they're paying us. They could care less about our musicianship.

Cheers,Gary cool


ok I'll agree top disagree again....let me also add I made alot of backing tracks playing live styles also on my Kb's...
as I dont always use a keyboard when I gig..mix it up baby! cool2

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