This is so rude and arrogant! Here you are pretending to be Mr. Nice and all and then you come up with this. Very Christian-like behavior!

First off, I know quite a few of Afrikaners, worked with Afrikaners, heck, I have one uncle who's been living in South-Africa since 1958. All of them speak English so now you pretending like it's not one of your native tongues is plain nonsense. You should know that Arikaans and English were the first two official languages of your country.

Russ doesn't have to communicate with you in Afrikaans because it's not taught in the US (apart from some colleges where they have Afrikaans language studies). English, on the other hand, is taught all over South-Afrika.

" So hoekom praat jy dan nie so 'n bietjie Afrikaans met my nie, dan sien ons hoe vaar jy."

So why don't you speak a little Afrikaans with me, then we'll see how you fare.

En dan praat die man nog van slegte musiek ook nog boonop... O vet!!!

And to top it off, than he calls my music bad.

Die arrogansie darem van sommige!

The arrogance of some people!

Don't think that you're the only one here who understands Afrikaans. Hey, at least you've shown your true colors.

Los Russ uit asseblief! Jy is 'n skynheilige!

[quote=Henni
Before sin came into existence, there was peace and joy right throughout the universe. But there was one created being, who for some reason, became full of pride and was not satisfied with the already exalted position that God had given him in heaven. That created being, or angel, was Lucifer, who was perfect when he was created, which confirms that God did NOT "create" evil.
[/quote]


Lucifer was created by God and he was perfect. But then he was no longer perfect but it still confirms that God did not create evil even though he created Lucifer. What the...?

And you can not find any contradictions in this?

No matter how you twist and turn it, you answer a question with a quote which than gets questioned with a quote which gets contradicted with a quote which then gets contradicted with another quote...and so on. I guess that's why Christopher Hitchens made so much sense. He actually answered questions in his own words.

Folks, a good part of this discussion was interesting and revealing. Part of the responses, from both sides, were courteous and exhibited some sincere thought and reflection.

The rest of it is a insult to literacy and intelligence.

And as Chas has noted, there's not much we can do about it.

How sad!


Russ

Tony, that reminds me of a lyric from a Porgy and Bess tune - 'Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die' . One of the many dilemmas presented by Christianity. How you doin' Big Guy? Saw your pic from Gary's 'jam'. Lookin' good.

chas

Taike, good to see you 'alive and kicking' (and posting). Isn't it great that Nigel has provided a place where we can go a little nuts once in awhile. Some a little nuttier than others, still it's nice to be able to express oneself openly and honestly from time to time (avoiding hard core personal attacks, of course). Hope you and your family are doing great.

chas

Ian & Gary, referring back to the response you made to my post of the Penn Jillette video, I don't think atheists can be said not to be proselytizing out of love.

The Bible tells us that if you do not believe in Jesus as the Son of God you will spend eternity separated from the love of God, in a place called Hell. Therefore, Penn's point is that, if you truly believed that, which Christians do, it would be an act of love to warn non-believers. Of course, this must be done in a gentle loving way, giving people the right that God has given them not to believe.

If the Christians are wrong in their belief in the Word of God, they have done no harm to the non-believer. The non-believer goes into nothingness as they expected anyway.

In the case of atheists, if they persuade others not to believe and they are wrong, this person is now sentenced to eternal damnation along with the atheist.

Graham, thankfully, there is no such place as hell, nor is there eternal damnation. It's not true...it's made up.

Also, seeing this "hell" and "eternal damnation" crap taught to children is what I'd consider child abuse.

Ian

Personally, I thing intellectual discussions between parties whose views are so diametrically opposed to each other are futile ... neither party is going to 'give in' to the other ... What I can't understand though, is why only the 'believers' are fanatical? Based on many of the comments, are not both sides 'fanatical' (marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion Webster) in their beliefs?



chas ... why just Christianity??? ... many religions believe in an afterlife ...
reminds me of a Kenny Chesney song "Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to go now" but then you don't 'do' country music so you probably wouldn't know that one ... and also, based on this thread, Kenny is SO wrong about 'everybody wanting to go' - people can't want to go to a place they don't believe in can they

We are doing/feeling real good ... my wife has been a "Pampered Chef" consultant for a few years and just reached the title of Director, so we leave Thursday for Louisville KY for a national conference at which she and other new Directors will be recognized ...
The 'jam' at Gary's was a BLAST !!! ...
be well ...

Some nice quotes by :
�Creationists make it sound like a �theory� is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night � Isaac Asimov

2.�I don�t believe in God. My god is patriotism. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life. � Andrew Carnegie

3.�All thinking men are atheists. � Ernest Hemingway

4.�Lighthouses are more helpful then churches. � Benjamin Franklin

5.�Faith means not wanting to know what is true. � Friedrich Nietzsche


Quotes 6 � 10

6.�The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. � George Bernard Shaw

7.�Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile. � Kurt Vonnegut


8.�I believe in God, only I spell it Nature. � Frank Lloyd Wright

9.�Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. � Denis Diderot

10.�A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. � Samuel Clemens

Quotes 11 � 15

11.�The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life. � Sigmund Freud

12.�Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. � Edward Gibbon

13.�The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church. � Ferdinand Magellan

14.�Not only is there no god, but try getting a plumber on weekends. � Woody Allen

15.�It�s an incredible con job when you think about it, to believe something now in exchange for something after death. Even corporations with their reward systems don�t try to make it posthumous. � Gloria Steinem

Another quote...

When the end of the world surely comes..we all will stand before judgement (God)...and we will all know the truth....I will try very hard not to smile ...less I will be standing next to my atheist friends.. ....Quote..Fran Carango