Guy is good. Must be a PA600?

Lousy recording, but he sure looks like he's having fun and is extremely talented.

Gary

Nice runs...would like to hear some other tunes also...prob a cell phone video like Gary said.

Yes Don, that's a Pa600 ...

Same player, different tune, different KBs ...

He's having a great time...almost as much fun as I have with my trusty Tyros4.

Ian

Ian you would have to post some kool videos like this guy for us to appreciate your statement with the T4..

If you can't appreciate my statement without me posting some "kool videos"...that's alright by me.

I'll still continue to enjoy my Tyros4 all the same.

Ian

No reason to get annoyed Ian just asking......

Ian, I'll sell you old video camera for $25, which will cover the cost of the mic I just bought from Donny.

Gary

Yeah Ian, I can't imagine anyone finding DNJ annoying.



chas

I'm not annoyed, Donny...read my earlier post again...I said I was having fun with my Tyros4...that's hardly being annoyed.

If posting videos of myself playing was something that interested me I'd be doing it.

I'm content posting an occasional MP3 of the Tyros4 to validate a certain point or to showcase a particular sound or style.

Ian

Yes, it was a bit of an understatement, wasn't it?

For someone who frequently asks others to share videos (or recordings) of themselves playing their specific arranger, I do notice a paucity of equivalent demos being posted by the solicitor.

Ian

Here is a better quality recording of the same guy going through the sounds and styles . Notice the quality of the sounds and the age of the musician . Look at how much fun he is having !

He starts playing styles at 13:54

you can see how the player gets inspired to create melodies and chord progression as he plays. This kind of freedom to literally arrange and create full expressions of musical ideas is just not possible with any other musical instrument. This is why I love my arranger keyboard !!!

Any person that likes a particular instrument (Any type of instrument) will enjoy themselves playing as well as be inspired to make music, to say it can only be done easily on an arranger is nonsensical.

Since the first musical instruments were made people have always been inspired to make music. (The arranger is just one of 100s)

Bill

I have to agree. I walk past my three arranger keyboards everyday on the way to my organ. I don't think I've touched any of them (except the BK7m, which I use as a drum machine for practicing) since I got my KeyB. That's probably just me, though, having a lifetime love affair with the sound and 'feel' of a jazz/gospel/rock Hammond B3. YMMV.

chas

I agree...most ordinary other instruments can play only up to three or four parts of an arrangement at the same time (like a Hammond with bass pedals and a drum machine), and the huge edge an arranger has over a workstation is it's immediacy.

To be able to sit down, switch it on, pick an appropriate style (which you can change at any time, including during play) and choose corresponding right and left hand sounds and then play a fully arranged piece is why I love my arranger as well.

It's fun, and some of us are still open-minded enough to remember what fun is.

An arranger can also be used as a workstation if the player so desires, so you literally have the best of both worlds. You can add bass pedals (if so inclined) and a second manual so it can easily become even more flexible.

I certainly don't think we'll ever fully convince either the purists or the geeks (sometimes they are both one and the same ) to embrace the arranger as we have, but who cares?

Let them criticize all they like...critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.

It's simply their loss and our gain.

Ian

PS...ever notice the scarcity of live play uploads by users who seem to believe their alternative instrument is better than an arranger?

As usual, any suggestion that an arranger kb may not be God's greatest gift to mankind, is immediately greeted with a not-so-subtle undertone of hostility accompanied by strong arguments of why it IS. The fact that I currently own 4 arrangers and have owned others in the past MUST mean that I don't 'hate' arrangers. The fact that I enjoy playing my organ more is nothing more than personal preference and shouldn't be attacked or need to be defended. I prefer beef but that doesn't mean I hate pork, chicken, and fish. I'll just reach for the steak first, is all.

I REALLY don't want to start a nasty back-and-forth, so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, don't post a snarky reply. A lot of people I know hate organs but they're still friends. I'm a big proponent of the 'different strokes' theory.

chas

I walk right past my arranger keyboards to my lifelong "love affair"..my accordion...


See Chas, how argumental it could be..

I didn't see the words "hate arrangers" in my post, nor in any of the others.

However, I still stand by my above post in that the arranger's biggest and most vocal critics appear to be those who have never uploaded (or quite likely, never have played) a piece of music using live style play, which is what makes the arranger so unique compared to workstations and other keyboard setups.

Let's face it, some people just don't (or can't) use style play; perhaps it's too difficult for them to make the adjustments in their playing technique, or they just don't want to use it for other reasons.

Different strokes.

Nevertheless, those of us who can make the adjustments and can embrace (and exploit) such a powerful (and unique ) music system will continue to reap the benefits...and continue to enjoy all the fun an arranger can provide.

This is an Arranger Keyboard forum, after all.

Ian

PS...Fran, I used to play accordion too...it's a unique instrument that I feel is a close relative of the arranger...I had an old Salanti 120 bass that I wish i had never sold. They were the original portable OMB keyboards.

I miss my Galante Accordion also, & others I've owned.
....what a great SOLO Instrument.
Sadly Kids today don't know what they are missing..but I do use many Acc sounds on my Arranger KB all the time.

Gosh, what a surprise. I was wondering how long it would take for that statement to appear. No matter how strongly we appeal, I guess some people just can't help being who they REALLY are, no matter how much they try to disguise it. Since we already know who HAS to have the last word, I won't bother to take this post further south.

So I guess those who don't necessarily think that arrangers are the undisputed king of all instruments, are not welcome on this forum. Wow, I belong to the Honda forum but I still like my Concours 1400 AND my Triumph Triple better. Doesn't seem to bother anybody there. But then again, the average age over there isn't 65+ .

chas

Me, I love 'em all. Arrangers, Hammonds, pianos. Well, not all - I do still have the almost insuppressible urge to stab an accordion, or bagpipes, in the windbag. 😂

It seems inevitable that you always manage to get yourself so unnecessarily defensive, Chas...then again, it looks so good on you, for some reason.

Practice makes perfect, I suppose.

Thanks,

Ian

Bill do you actually read the quotes you use before you comment on them ? Where did I say that only an arranger musical instrument exclusively can inspire or give enjoyment whilst playing it ? Can you find that or even a hint of that from the above quote ?

My word ! It's so frustrating posting on this forum when folkes it would appear deliberately misinterpret or twist meanings to suit some kind of hidden agenda !

I said :

This kind of freedom to literally arrange and create full expressions of musical ideas is just not possible with any other musical instrument. This is why I love my arranger keyboard !!!

Name another instrument ( not hundreds ) just one where you can arrange drums , strings ,guitars , horns , pads other percussion instruments live and fluidly in one instrument as you play and as the mood takes you as full expressions of musical ideas .

Can't be done on a guitar,flute, piano trumpet , bass sax etc or even on Chas's favourite accordion .

Even the more recent venture by workstations in adopting arranger features has not achieved anything like the fluidity of an arranger keyboard .

The only nonsense being spouted Bill unfortunately is coming from folks who either can't or refuse to read and should really know better than to misquote ....

Using the original post:

[Quote] you can see how the player gets inspired to create melodies and chord progression as he plays [Quote]

This was being done a long long time before the arranger came on the market. (Plus not everybody wants to do this solo)

[Quote] This kind of freedom to literally arrange and create full expressions of musical ideas is just not possible with any other musical instrument [Quote]

As I said in my original post this statement is nonsensical, as there are many other instruments that can easily do it. (And when it comes to originality do it even better as they are not limited to the canned style system)

As to misquoting and twisting facts, then I am afraid you are the guilty one, not me.

Remember I have no favourite instrument or brand; I just use what suits me, as I am well aware that there is not one instrument that can do everything. (And that includes arrangers, no matter what the manufactures and owners try and make you believe)

Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

Mmmmm...I thought arranger type instruments were pretty much the only keyboard where you could change arrangements (and styles) while physically playing a particular song live.

And to repeat what I said above... the arranger keyboard's biggest and most vocal critics appear to be those who have never uploaded (or quite likely, never have played) a piece of music using live style play, which is what makes the arranger so unique compared to workstations and other keyboard setups.

Summing up...I'm glad to have my Tyros4...nothing else out there comes even remotely close to replacing it, as nothing else suits my needs best.

Ian

You can see that Ian but obviously some people on this forum are deliberately blind to what is right in front of them.

The Example that I posted was of a guy playing an arranger and creating fully expressed musical ideas freely with full arrangements. You heard drums , strings guitars organs you name it all arranged and coordinated to flll out all the stuff that you only hear in your head when playing any other instrument .

That seems pretty unique to only arranger keyboard. Is that really so unclear ?

Just so I know what kind of misunderstanding is going on here (obviously there is some misunderstanding ) , can you name just one other instrument .... Just one where you can create full musical expression of an idea live and as you feel it like the video example this whole topic is about ?


Just one Bill.... I would really like to know if one exists that I've missed . Because one of us is genuinely talking nonsense here and if it's me then help me out .

You have to forgive Billy, Worth...remember, he plays one of them there Wersi thingies.

Ian

He's the only one that can afford one!

I'm just glad I can afford not to have one.

The styles are pretty bland, from the few I've heard...probably why users are reluctant to post anything done with one.

Ian

1. Any entertainment organ, (The arranger is just a single keyboard with all the electronic entertainment organ easy play features) which has the greater advantage that whatever is in your head can be put down, recorded and played live. (No need to follow along to canned bass lines or accompaniment as you can play what’s in your head yourself)

2. A Midi controller keyboard with a laptop and Abeleton Live

There’s 2 options all way more flexible, allowing you to put down what’s in your head far more easily.

Nothing wrong using an arranger if it does what you want, however for me there isn’t one out there yet that does what I want, (And I don’t like being dictated to by a manufacture as to what I can & cannot have) hence I use other equipment. (As do 99% of other musicians/technicians/players)

There is a big wide world out there, with folks doing all sorts of things, so its pointless banging on about the arranger as if it’s the best thing out there, because it’s not. (Not even close)

Bill

You make me smile bill . Isn't an entertainment organ ......just an Expensive organ with errr .........an arranger inside ? Ha ha ! You could do stand up comedy honestly !

And I did not know that a midi keyboard and an additional computer and external software was "one instrument " or could meet the fluidty and ease of use as an arranger but i guess anything fits the description of one musical instrument in your world if you really really want it to ...... As always it's been fun .

Bill, Donny, I am going to disagree with you guys..I think a top of the line arranger keyboard, could very well be the best instrument...period..

Not because you can push a button and it can make music that most folks could not possibly play..but the flexability of the instrument to conform to what ever you need to do...or your skill level...

I would use my G70 as an example...
It can be the stage piano (of course there are limitations..semi weighted is not piano feel, but more than playable)..
It can be a drawbar organ, as good as most..
It can be the sequencing workstation..
It can be the perfect scratch pad for new songs..
It can be the fastest performing tool...in fact it is..

There is no alternative that out performs the arranger keyboard..

And it can conform to a USB controller to use with our daws, and VST programs...Really..what is missing...and why would I choose any other instrument (being a keyboard player)..?

The organ is more flexible as it has additional keyboards and pedals which have their own sections, (thus you don’t need to program so much beforehand) but it is larger to carry around so doesn’t suit all. (No one instrument does)

Bill

The arranger comes from the entertainment organ not the other way round. (Talk about twisting the facts)

You asked for 1 option and I gave you 2, 1 which is an all in one (Like an arranger) and a second which weighs no more than an arranger and has minimal additional setup if you are gigging.

Just because you like an arranger, doesn’t mean everybody else in the world should too. (Everyone has a right to their own opinion)

Fran that's all well and good & personally I love my arranger been playing them for a living since the first one hit the market years ago with my KORG SAS20.............but please explain to me why everyone else out there as we AR Kb players are surly a minority just don't get it about arrangers?.....everyone isn't stupid?
the percentage of pro musicians DON"Y use Arranger kb's that is a fact just look around you....nothing wrong with that but there are other ways to make music and the people have spoken on keyboards just by their numbers in using KBs other then an Arranger to make great music, it's done every day in studio & live on stage,....they all can't be wrong?...or can they?....

Are they OMB's like we are ?

of course not Bernie ....it's just that we all have to play nice together in this industry ......there's room for all of us anyway we do it with whatever we use...

So lets talk about your examples for a second Bill.

The first is an organ with what most normall people would agree is an arranger inside it right or wrong ? So your first example of something that plays as fluidly and is as instantaneous in creating full music expression already has an arranger inside ????

Can you not see the slight flaw in that example ????

The second one is not even an instrument ! Let me walk you through a scenario

A man walks into the shop "I want to buy a musical instrument." Assistant says "Certainly so what sort of instrument did you want to buy?" The man responds I want to buy a midi keyboard laptop Alberton live instrument please . In fact I'll have two one for me and one for my friend Bill" shop assistant says "who makes it I have not heard of that instrument? Customer says don't talk such nonsense everybody's heard of that instrument surely? Shop assistant replies "I'm really sorry sir we don't sell that instrument I could sell you a midi keyboard and I could direct you to my friend techi Thomas who owns a computer store up the road and and I could sell you some software but we don't have one instrument of that kind.

Customer walks away shaking his head " I should've just bought one of them bloody arranger thingies from the Yamaha shop! Bill will be gutted "

I'm just Playing with you bill . No disrespect intended . Enjoy making music . Take care . Worth

Donny, no they are not stupid...but they sure are ignorant
Ignorant of the fact...they don't have a clue how a top arranger keyboard can do everything they need..They just don't understand the instrument...and are closed minded to even learn..

Perfect example..Go into any bigtime music store, ask a sales person about any top arranger..after you explain what it is to them...you can assume these "pro" players with sales jobs, are not much different than other "pro" players..

They are ignorant!!!!

The very first time I used arranger keyboards..I seen the benefits from a players view..No I was not interested in "auto" play, but the possibilities of using it as a player..

With left hand bass, drum machine built in and quick set up for any tune..Fast forward to today..and I still look for these same benefits.The vast majority of "pro" players, have never tried or experienced what I am talking about...All they know is any 10 year old kid can play a Casio and sound better than they do ..thus they block it out and miss the boat how much more efficient they could be..

Stupid NO..Ignorant .you bet

I think there is the OMB/Businessman point of view and the MUSICIAN'S point of view. Each has different requirements and different expectations from their instrument. You won't find any classically trained, (true) professional level, musician using or even owning an arranger keyboard. Likewise, you won't find more than 1% of arranger-playing OMB's that could play a solo piano or organ gig. Anyway you look it, an arranger keyboard, despite it's many virtues, is a CRUTCH used by the same people who prefer a 'magic' diet pill to proper diet and exercise.

A lot of what Donny said (I can't believe I'm saying this ) is true; most TRUE professionals wouldn't be caught dead on a gig with an arranger keyboard. It may make you feel good to say that they're all "ignorant" and YOU are smarter than 99% of the musician population, but you're only blowing smoke up your own butt.

Arranger keyboards are aimed primarily at 'home players'. Pro musicians know this, the manufacturers know this, most of the non-arranger-owning world knows this. But, to quote the 'good book', "there is none so blind as he that WILL not see".

Me personally, I think arrangers are great as a vehicle to push the technology, and an absolute boom to OMB's with passable vocals but couldn't play their way out of a paper bag. Few of those would be able to keep all those hip-replacements on the dance floor without them (arrangers).

So here's to Arrangers and their fanatical followers. Heck, I may take one out on a gig myself, but not till I perfect my lip-sync and Air Guitar skills.

chas

PS: Hey Worth, you, of all people, should know that that great Gospel Organ and Gospel piano can ONLY be done on the REAL thing, baby. So put that arranger down and go practice . BTW, if you ever make it to the 'states', look me up; I'd love to meet you.

I can't disagree with you about the organ Chas . It's a discipline all of its own . Some day I might make it over there but in the mean time the Internet is the best we can do .

Chas, your view proves my point....If you read my comments again..I never mentioned the "auto" play as a preferred benefit...but it is that mentallity that prevents folks...to find that the "arranger" keyboard can be a great asset..even for the won't be caught dead crowd..

BTW: I have an accomplished classical playing friend..that actually knows chords too...and uses an arranger for some gigs..
He is a doctorate of music..

Another friend, that can out play anyone I know...he too has a PA1x...

To just say a blanket statement that no one would gig with an arranger if they were real pros...just don't fly..

To say players that are ignorant of the facts an arranger can make music to satisfy themm...well it is true..

Fran, if you aren't talking 'auto-play', then you aren't talking arrangers.

Secondly, what you (and many others on this board) consider 'Pro' and what I consider 'Pro' are vastly different things. If you are able to pick up an occasional check or even make a living with the level of skill exhibited by the self-proclaimed 'pros' here, then I say, more power to you. Hey, a whole generation of people were deluded into thinking Bob Dylan could sing, so Anything is possible .

chas

Chas, you can use a shovel to break ground and build a new hospital....or you can use a shovel to shovel horse manure in a stable...I don't know who would be the pro..
BTW: My friends I mentioned above are pros on everyone's list..
I think if you are concerned for the skill level...we can turn off the "auto" stuff..call off some tunes and just play...I am up for it..when you flying in to Philly area?

Sorry Fran, I just don't know that many Polkas .

chas

Sometimes people criticize an instrument because maybe they don't really know how to make the most of it, and are trying to make sure that no one will ever find out how little they actually know about playing it.

Who would ever expect them to post anything on something they are always criticizing?

And, let's face it, Fran...some people will never understand our connection to the Arranger Keyboard, even after you and I and many other General Arranger Keyboard posters illustrate all the positive aspects of being able to play the instrument well.

Then there are those who's egos can't handle the alleged arranger "stigma", which is rather funny, because, like you, I have quite a few clients/friends that are accomplished keyboard players (many are pro) and who's primary instrument is now an arranger.

It didn't bother them in slightest, but, they also took the time to explore and learn the instrument's many virtues. Open-minded for sure.

But, getting back to those who will never connect...well, we can't win 'em all.

Too bad, so sad.

Now, back to my music.

Ian

Donny, I hope no pro musician uses an arranger keyboard - I don't want them to sound as good as ME!

Cheers,

Gary