Very informative post, Ian, and very accurate. I hope those not that familiar with the Hammond organ take the time to read it. Of all the 'clonewheels', I think the KeyB Duo Mk111 comes closest to capturing the 'B3' feel. Not only the ergonomics (all the controls are essentially the same as on the original), but also the tone, keyfeel, console size, and the way the various tone modifiers (CV, keyclick, percussion,, chorus, etc.) work. I know that every owner thinks that THEIR selection is the best, but in this case, I've done A/B comparisons with the MOJO, the Nord C2D (which I also own) and most of the Hammond/Suzuki line, and with and without (internal 'sim') my Leslie 3300 and, although close, especially when played through the Leslie, I think the edge definitely goes to the KeyB. My choice of the KeyB over a 'real' B3 had nothing to do with economics but the amount of 'care and feeding' (maintenance) I was willing to give it. There were also some other 'convenience' features not available on the 'real' B3 that I liked (linked pedal, pedal sustain, transpose, and multiple models (A100, C3, etc.). I may yet get a 'real' one, depending on the available space in whatever house we downsize to (it would have to share space with a grand piano).

In the Lucky Peterson video, I was trying to show how it would be VERY difficult to capture the quality of BLUES playing seen there on an arranger keyboard; but then again, very few arranger players play the blues anyway, so maybe the point is moot .

chas

I agree with Ian that all you need is an arranger KB like the T4, S950 BK9, Korg Pa900, 3x, Audya, etc, to enjoy playing Organ if that's what you want to besides all the other great features, sounds & styles.....
There's more then enough within to get your juices flowing.
Plus you can take it wherever you go also. In reality let's face it how many "Hammondphiles" are there anymore that will go out and buy a Real B3 & Leslie vs all this new KB gear to replace it just as well? Hammond had it's time years ago and I for one was glad to be a part of it, owned one and played it on stage in the 60's, 70's also.

Donny beat me to the Tony Monaco thing. When the Hammond XK3 first came out along with the "New B3" Tony recorded a CD, Burning Grooves, using both his studio A100 and the New B3. Then he had a contest to see who could tell which instrument was on which track. Winner was going to get a new XK3. I was at the time buying, refurbing, and selling Hammonds with a master tech in Northern NJ. Point being I was listening and playing all kinds of Hammonds a lot. Got the CD, listened on and off to it thru headphones and sent my entry in. One night the Phone rings "Hey Bill, its Tony Monaco, you won ! " Wohoo
Spoke to him for awhile and he told me how he had been pushing Hammond for a long time to produce the XK3 and with the full XK3 system of lower manuel and pedals he would no longer be taking a real B3 for his travel gigs.
I think the clones sound and play great and except for the size factor of playing the real deal you don't miss much. Now Leslies are a whole nuther story. There is nothing that can recreate the air movement a Leslie creates. Once you mic it or get far away a sim is just as good there too. Demonstrated that to more than a few churches.
like Donny I'm happy I had my time doing tons of gigs with the B's but damn if the clones were available back then I would have jumped all over them.

Chas, maybe the reason we arranger players (and devotees) rarely play the blues is that we are just so damn HAPPY.

Even our traditional accordion loving Fran has a thing for arrangers.

I guess we are so happy because we have a very forgiving band on hand (left hand, at that!), that doesn't even complain about the occasional boo-boo or what genre of music we want to play, and how many times we'd like to play it ad nauseam.

Those little electronic band-mates are also very obedient, that is, if you give them the proper chords to play and don't make them play a 3/4 song in 4/4 time.

Seriously, instruments like the KeyB and Hammond XK3c Duo do give the gigging/home organist some worthy features such as different organ models/tonewheel sets and the transposer and many other adjustable parameters not possible on the ole B-3...I know a transposer would be handy occasionally when the singer is a little croaky, or we have another player, who wants already familiar tunes in another key.

Yes, I'm lazy, but I'm also 65 and I just want to jam and not take things so seriously (fun?)...jam sessions are huge stress relievers.

I always consider playing the Hammond B-3 an "occasion"...it's like driving a mint condition 1950 Caddy or Harley, as opposed to a new Lexus or Kawasaki.

Sure, I wouldn't want to attempt any long trips in a rather high-maintenance vintage vehicle any more than I'd want a genuine B-3 here in my apartment...I sold mine for a reason, mainly, as you say, the care and feeding can be bothersome (and pricey), but that doesn't mean I don't miss the old girl.

I suppose that's why some artists demand an actual B-3 on stage..."there's nuthin' like the real thing".

Ian

Bill great story wow!!

Ian funny lol...

Fran's going to kill you.



chas

lets be real shall we?..

Poor Fran...it must be hard to play with those vertically opposed thumbs.

That's probably from playing too much accordion....yeah, I know Fran, you can never have too much accordion.

Ian

If I might add MY 2 pennies worth ...
I have never played a Hammond, or any organ for that matter, so I cannot comment using first hand experience ...
But I will say this - I played for 1 year with a 'classic rock band' here in RI and we had a B3 player ... He had heavy duty piano legs (the top of the leg was about 4 x 4 )hinged on the sides to carry it (one guy under each leg) ... this was my first experience with a B3 and it blew me away ...
At the Newport Jazz Festival this year, there was more than one player using a NORD, including the KB player for Bobby McFerrin ... they sounded fantastic .... I could not tell if they were using a Leslie or not, and of course they are going through TOTL PA systems ... Joey D, however, played a B3 ...

My 'simple' answer to this 'debate, is that - putting aside portability, price, playing OMB gigs in NH, etc. - if you want the best REAL sound out of ANY instrument, you use THAT instrument and a player who knows how to accomplish that ... you do not use a sim or a clone ...
Arranger KBs have their place, but they will not REPLACE the REAL thing ...
JMHO

PS ... I was just looking back at this thread and realized I pretty much was paraphrasing what spalding said in an earlier post ...