Following a discussion in a thread, in which the suggestion, or demand, came up to ban religion from the general arranger forum entirely, I think it is a good idea to first present some quotes about the basic concepts of 'Freedom of Religion' and 'Freedom of Speech':

Quotes from Wikipedia about Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech/Expression:

"Freedom of religion or freedom of belief is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or community, in public or private, to manifest religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance. It also includes the freedom to change one's religion or belief.[1]"
Freedom of religion is considered by many people and nations to be a fundamental human right"

"Freedom of speech is the right to communicate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

Governments restrict speech with varying limitations. Common limitations on speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, right to privacy, right to be forgotten, public security, public order, public nuisance, campaign finance reform and oppression. Whether these limitations can be justified under the harm principle depends upon whether influencing a third party's opinions or actions adversely to the second party constitutes such harm or not. Governmental and other compulsory organizations often have policies restricting the freedom of speech for political reasons, for example, speech codes at state schools."

In my opinion it is a totally unacceptable demand to ban an internet forum of any reference to personal religious beliefs. Atheists should respect that for some people religion plays a certain role in their lives, and even if a musicians' forum should definitely not be used to put religious thoughts instead of music in the main focus, it is inevitable that sometimes there are references to what individuals feel is important for their personal life, and in some cases this can be religion.
In the particular case to which I'm referring here, banning religious content would mean that quoting a newspaper article with a reference to religion would be against forum rules, or one would have to censor and eliminate certain sentences from that newspaper article. - Come on, where are we getting there? This reminds me of totalitarian regimes, not of a modern society.
Of course the owner of an internet forum could set any board rules he/she wants, but if a forum didn't reflect the liberty of expression practised in modern, open societies and ban any reference to religion, I would quit it and morally disqualify it.

OK, so much for my stance in this matter.

First of all, no one demanded or even requested a ban on religion, so that statement is just so much bullcrap. It just amazes me how some people can take the tiniest scrap of NOTHING and try to explode it into something it's not. Please point out what words or phrase I used to prompt the last paragraph of your above post. The fact is, I didn't even comment on Mark's post so what's with this diatribe against me? Personal, maybe?

Someone else mentioned the 'religious' factor which got the usual (and predictable) negative reponse. I then merely opined that bringing religion and one's personal religious beliefs into a secular forum was probably not a good idea; a FAR CRY from requesting a BAN. I think you've done a lot to prove my case. In any case, THIS is the right forum for this discussion and I'll be happy to discuss 'Freedom of Religion' (which, btw, has nothing to do with any your 'grievances'), 'Freedom of Speech' (likewise), or any other subject on which I may have an opinion. Listen, the hardest concept for most people to accept is that someone else's opinion is just as valid FOR THEM as yours is for you. It seems to be especially hard for 'People of Faith'. Hey, this IS a PUBLIC forum, which means that you're likely to encounter a wide variety of opinions on EVERY subject, so if you're going to threaten to leave (and try to make it appear as though it's my fault) every time one (opinion) doesn't agree with yours, then (in my opinion ), that's downright childish.

BTW, my take on Freedom of Religion is that you have the freedom to practice it, not bombard the rest of the world with it. As for Freedom of Speech, just re-read your own posted definition above. I happen to agree with it.

chas

Well, I must have understood your post completely wrong, here's what you said:

"You are SO right, John. It's when we try to make OUR truth the UNIVERSAL truth that we get into trouble, that's why I think we should leave our religious beliefs at home when we visit a secular forum. JMO."

Then you added:
"Wow! PLEASE go back and read my post again. First of all, I haven't DEMANDED anything, but your post DOES make a good case for my OPINION that the forum is probably best served if we leave religion out of it. In fact, MOST forums include that provision as part of the rules (and for exactly this reason). Besides, that is what Nigel provided THE BAR for."

So, I understood this as a request, or wish (if "demand" is too much) for "leaving religious beliefs at home" and for forum rules not to allow any reference to religion.

And regarding your remark that this belongs in the Bar:
Does this mean the original newspaper article Mark posted shouldn't be posted in the main forum?
Who started to turn that thread into a religious discussion? You might say it was Mark in the first place, but there we are with wiping out parts of the newspaper article. But Mirza and you began focusing on the religious reference in it. Then you say it belongs in the Bar.
I'd wish for a little more relaxed way of dealing with users who make references to religion.

I apsolutely have no problem people posting anything about religion. I also posted many things that I don't like about religion,and every time it was open for a discussion. And why nor? What us wrong with taking about about this? When did we
become so spineless ?? Or do we really have to agree with each other, whether we talk about religion or we comment about demos. It is a discussion forum. Why not think a little bit out of the box ?

Well you understood wrong. What I REALLY 'wish' for is that you stop re-interpreting my words to fit your agenda, and let them stand as written. I don't think I need and English to English interpreter.

chas

I really have trouble understanding what you do mean. I won't make any further attempt to react to it.

I like this attitude better than an attitude that wishes for "leaving religion at home in a secular forum" and mentions other forums that presumably have such board rules. But obviously I can't understand English, so I better assume nobody said anything about leaving religion at home in this forum.

That's funny. I'll just leave you with a biblical quote;

"There is none so blind as he that WILL not see"

Have a nice day.

chas

Yes, maybe some day it will all become clear.
With kind regards