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#429625 - 03/07/17 08:56 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: spalding1968]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
Okay so I spent an hour at PMT music in Birmingham playing the Korg PA4 X 76 key keyboard.

I went through all the drum kits and all the bass sounds and all the guitars and all the electric and acoustic pianos. And as I played I couldn't help but notice the very close similarity in sound to what I'm used to hearing through my own 10-year-old Pa1x board.

For example apart from the ambient drum kits ,most of the other drum kits were exactly the same as the ones I have in my old keyboard. For example all the jazz kits all the standard kits sound the same even the velocity switching on the snare drums and hi hats . In other words in relation to the drum programming, it was 10-year-old drum samples . Pretty much all the electric pianos that I heard were very similar to the ones I have on my golden entertainer expansion board. I can only tell you what my ears were actually hearing through my one headphones in the music store.

There was a significant improvement in the sounds of the acoustic guitar is and strings however most of the electric guitars sounded just like the ones that my keyboard came with on the golden entertainer expansion board but different affects, not necessarily better affects, just different .

I really wanted to get excited about purchasing this keyboard as I was when I originally purchased the PA1X . I was really looking forward to owning one of these by Friday this week.

But something just doesn't feel right. I can't put my finger on it exactly I mean I had got myself a killer deal on a very nearly new PA4 X . But as I played and listened and played, I just felt this was not a good idea. I didn't feel like the "upgrade" was worth £2300 of my hard earned money . I mean 80% of what I was hearing was what I could produce on my old keyboard.

So now I am in a bit of a quandary! I know my old instrument, can't last forever and at some point will fail . But if I buy the 4x I'm going to be looking at learning a new operating system and becoming very comfortable and familiar with it for what gain ?

I understand that Keton and Yamaha will bring out new instruments towards the end of this year. I've decided not to pull the trigger on the new Korg at this point, I think if I still feel like upgrading six months from now I'll have to listen to the competition and keep my old board . I can probably still get a relatively good deal on a new or nearly new korg if I go that route also .

Thanks for everyone that p.m. to me and those that contributed to this thread. I very much appreciate your advice and your patience with me.

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#429627 - 03/07/17 09:25 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: john smies]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By john smies
Originally Posted By spalding1968
I am very very close to pulling the trigger on this one .

Bacchus where would I find a brand new korg pa4x for 2600 euros ??? That would be a serious proposition and I would hold fire on the one I found if you can send me a link ?

Also has anyone tried the aiwa iOS 9 Bluetooth portable speaker as a keyboard amp ?



Imho you cannot find a new PA4X ( let alone a 76 version) for 2600 euros ( that would be approx. 2200 quid in your currency).
Forget about it and go for the one you have set your eyes on !!!!

regards
John


Well, actually you can, there was a small dealer in Den Bosch advertising them on Marktplaats for €2800, he had several brand new units in boxes... he was selling from a garagebox.

He still has a PAAS for sale, brand new at €250
Also the Roland G70, he payed me €500 for is still for sale, his price dropped to €450

As i said, it was a once in a lifetime deal, i could not refuse.. as during negotions his price dropped to €2600.. and he made me that top knotch offer on the G70, which he will probably not sell above €300...

Luck? No, just a matter of waiting for the right deal....


Here is a link to that dealer [url=KORG PaAS speakersysteem voor KORG PA3X / PAX4 NIEUW IN DOO http://link.marktplaats.nl/m1139810631?u...=app_ios_tablet Ad]KORG PaAS speakersysteem voor KORG PA3X / PAX4 NIEUW IN DOO http://link.marktplaats.nl/m1139810631?u...=app_ios_tablet Ad[/url]


Edited by Bachus (03/07/17 09:26 AM)
_________________________
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#429628 - 03/07/17 09:33 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: spalding1968]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By spalding1968
Okay so I spent an hour at PMT music in Birmingham playing the Korg PA4 X 76 key keyboard.

I went through all the drum kits and all the bass sounds and all the guitars and all the electric and acoustic pianos. And as I played I couldn't help but notice the very close similarity in sound to what I'm used to hearing through my own 10-year-old Pa1x board.

For example apart from the ambient drum kits ,most of the other drum kits were exactly the same as the ones I have in my old keyboard. For example all the jazz kits all the standard kits sound the same even the velocity switching on the snare drums and hi hats . In other words in relation to the drum programming, it was 10-year-old drum samples . Pretty much all the electric pianos that I heard were very similar to the ones I have on my golden entertainer expansion board. I can only tell you what my ears were actually hearing through my one headphones in the music store.

There was a significant improvement in the sounds of the acoustic guitar is and strings however most of the electric guitars sounded just like the ones that my keyboard came with on the golden entertainer expansion board but different affects, not necessarily better affects, just different .

I really wanted to get excited about purchasing this keyboard as I was when I originally purchased the PA1X . I was really looking forward to owning one of these by Friday this week.

But something just doesn't feel right. I can't put my finger on it exactly I mean I had got myself a killer deal on a very nearly new PA4 X . But as I played and listened and played, I just felt this was not a good idea. I didn't feel like the "upgrade" was worth £2300 of my hard earned money . I mean 80% of what I was hearing was what I could produce on my old keyboard.

So now I am in a bit of a quandary! I know my old instrument, can't last forever and at some point will fail . But if I buy the 4x I'm going to be looking at learning a new operating system and becoming very comfortable and familiar with it for what gain ?

I understand that Keton and Yamaha will bring out new instruments towards the end of this year. I've decided not to pull the trigger on the new Korg at this point, I think if I still feel like upgrading six months from now I'll have to listen to the competition and keep my old board . I can probably still get a relatively good deal on a new or nearly new korg if I go that route also .

Thanks for everyone that p.m. to me and those that contributed to this thread. I very much appreciate your advice and your patience with me.


To be honest, thats due to backward compatibillity, all those drumkits should sound roughly the same to make those old styles still sound good..

And for guitars, you should try the new DNC guitars and add some of the guitar AMPs as insert effects..

Same goes for the piano... yes it sounds like a piano, a bit dark, but there is a lot lot more nuance then in previous models..


Yet, in the end, the pa1x might still suit your best, as your eats are atuned to the sound, and if it sounded great 10 years ago, it still should sound great today...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#429630 - 03/07/17 11:44 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: spalding1968]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5400
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Interesting, are you sure it’s not your headphones, amplifier or speaker system that is holding things back.

Try out some TOTL Workstations and VSTs with your system, as these will give a vast improvement over the PA1x, however if they don’t, then it is probably your headphones, amps or speaker system that needs upgrading first.

Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#429633 - 03/07/17 05:47 PM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: Uncle Dave]
DanO1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 3602
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By DonM
Do you still have it Dave?

Nope - returned it as soon as I found it's sonic achilles heel.


Hey Dave.. Can you clarify the sonic achilles heel ?
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#429657 - 03/09/17 06:28 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: Bachus]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
I hear you Bachus and I understand the arguments about backward compatibility. But is a weak argument in my view and I will explain why.

I want to buy a new keyboard to take advantage of the new sound engine and all the new styles along with all the backward compatible styles. Not merely to play my old styles using all the old sounds. Or Am I misunderstanding why people buy new keyboard?

If the new styles we are using the new EDS sound source, then I am very surprised that it doesn't sound significantly different to the old styles. To my ears that was what really surprised me and I was inderwhelmed .

I agree with you however that the DNC guitars and saxes are a great improvement over the old ones. In fact any of the sounds that use DNC are clearly better than those that do not use it. but most of the keyboards sounds are not using DNC . Further more I had upgraded my original keyboard using the golden entertainer XMS1 expansion board scone years ago , therefore the improvement from this to the 4x is not as great as you might expect .

Anyway . Thanks for everyone's input. I trust my ears and my own intuition. My money will still be available should korg or Yamaha produce an instrument worthy of the upgrade on my terms . Enjoy whatever you play .

God bless

Worth

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#429658 - 03/09/17 07:20 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: DanO1]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By DanO1
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By DonM
Do you still have it Dave?

Nope - returned it as soon as I found it's sonic achilles heel.


Hey Dave.. Can you clarify the sonic achilles heel ?

Sure! It is not possible to monitor incoming audio signals that are fed through the aux inputs. The sound bar only amplifies the direct outputs of the keyboard. This includes the mic, or other signals fed to THAT section, but I use the Mic as well as an iPad. It can't do both, and that is the weakness. If Korg had a workaround, I'd still have it, but after speaking with them, they told me it was not something they planned to address.
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#429662 - 03/09/17 08:07 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: spalding1968]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5400
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By spalding1968
I hear you Bachus and I understand the arguments about backward compatibility. But is a weak argument in my view and I will explain why.

I want to buy a new keyboard to take advantage of the new sound engine and all the new styles along with all the backward compatible styles. Not merely to play my old styles using all the old sounds. Or Am I misunderstanding why people buy new keyboard?

If the new styles we are using the new EDS sound source, then I am very surprised that it doesn't sound significantly different to the old styles. To my ears that was what really surprised me and I was inderwhelmed .

I agree with you however that the DNC guitars and saxes are a great improvement over the old ones. In fact any of the sounds that use DNC are clearly better than those that do not use it. but most of the keyboards sounds are not using DNC . Further more I had upgraded my original keyboard using the golden entertainer XMS1 expansion board scone years ago , therefore the improvement from this to the 4x is not as great as you might expect .

Anyway . Thanks for everyone's input. I trust my ears and my own intuition. My money will still be available should korg or Yamaha produce an instrument worthy of the upgrade on my terms . Enjoy whatever you play .

God bless

Worth


Hi Spalding

If all the voices etc. had all the new effects and improvements that have been added since the PA1x, I can guarantee that virtually every one of your styles, pre-sets etc. that you use in your PA1x, would be virtually unusable, and you would need to reprogram everything before using them, however by keeping all the old voices in the instrument in addition to adding new sounds, means you can use your existing styles, pre-sets etc. to get you going, and modify them to use all the new sounds and features as and when required.

It’s like using a Midi file designed for a T5 on an earlier instrument, it would sound terrible, due to all the improvements in the T5 which the older instrument doesn’t have.

Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#429664 - 03/09/17 08:51 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: spalding1968]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
I hear you Bill. But that also means conveniently that Korg will hapily accept £2000 -£3000 new money to provide me with 80% of what I already have using virtually the same sounds with the asurance that if I wish to take advantage of the new sounds and effects , on the same styles they have on the new board , I will have to reprogramme the styles myself .....I thought that's what they were suppose to be doing .

Sounds like a good deal to me .....


Edited by spalding1968 (03/09/17 10:02 AM)

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#429666 - 03/09/17 11:59 AM Re: Should I buy a new PA4X or wait a while [Re: spalding1968]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5400
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Spalding

I see where you are coming from, however all manufactures do it like that, so unless something completely revolutionary comes out, (Which is usually only once in a blue moon) the cycle will continue. (If you want something completely different, then the only way is to change manufactures)

NOTE: This doesn’t just apply to arrangers, but nearly all electronic keyboard instruments.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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